Basic vs Comfort Harness

[Nemrod]

unnecessary D rings

I think you summed that up nicely. As well, sternum straps suck. The extra padding, tube neoprene sleeves, can be purchased from Dive Rite and Oxy and several others. I use them and like having them for swimsuit diving. Otherwise, they are of no value other than perhaps eliminating some chaffing of your wetsuit.

Kind of like the movie "Fargo" where the salesman guy tricked the client into the "Tru-Coat" paint protection, that crap is unnecessary and so is a comfort harness. I am not not nor ever will be GOO-ey or DIR but I am a minimalist and anything above and beyond what is required is a complication and counter to minimalist diving.

N

 

[Imla]

Thanks for all the advice. The D rings on comfort harnesses look spaced enough that they shouldn't interfere with each other, but maybe I'd have to try using them to see. On my jacket BC I stopped using the sternum strap since if it's tight I have difficulty breathing the next day, and if it's loose it does nothing. Rig never felt less tight just with the shoulders/waist strap, so thought maybe that would be enough with a BPW too.

I really like the look of the Hollis Elite 2 harness, but alas only a sternum strap. Guess I'll go with the Hollis solo for the crotch strap.

Is getting into a crotch strap when your gear is set up in your car trunk difficult? Being able to sit down on the edge and just fasten a waist strap seems a lot easier in theory.

There is no problem in going with the elite harness and adding a crotchstrap. Although... I do believe the crotchstrap is included even though it doesnt look like it on the pictures.

The strap is loose from the waist belt, so, you open the waistbelt, Cstrap hangs down from the plate, get into shoulderstraps, pull cstrap out from between your legs, and thread it onto your left waiststrap. Then fasten waiststrap.

 

[victorzamora]

Vegan Shark, my first BCD purchase included a Hollis Elite2 harness. It does come with a crotch strap. It also comes with a sternum strap. The harness was alright. However, guess what I dive now. Despite what the board was saying, I bought the Elite2 for the extra d-rings, padding, and comfort. I'm now diving a single-piece harness.....with less D-rings. The Elite2 (and all other "comfort" harnesses) not only has two d-rings per shoulder, but also has a third ring for the buckle to attach to. Between those three, it was a true PITA to stow or deploy anything. I know you don't think so, but they REALLY get in the way. With the single-piece harness you get everything tucked behind you and out of the way. It's nearly the same to don/doff. I won't go back to buckles and clips and pads on any BPW.

If you do get the Elite2, I can guarantee you'll be looking/wishing for a single-piece harness sooner rather than later. The VAST majority of divers do. That is, unless you have a physical limitation that makes the buckles easier on you.

Having said all of this, let me clarify that I don't care what agency says what about gear configuration. I don't dive in the DIR setup. I have never taken a GUE class. No instructor has ever pointed me towards a particular BCD. The reason I got the Elite2 was because of a good salesman at the LDS. The reason I sold it was because of MY experience, despite truly believing the single-piece to be inferior before hand. I did all of that before I ever started into the tech route....so Tech had nothing to do with it either. It was simply function and convenience at a purely recreational level.

Edit: Last thing, the crotch strap is CRUCIAL. After I started diving BPW, I've been unable to comfortably dive anything without one. My wife owns a non-BPW BCD, and we added a crotch strap to it because of how uncomfortable she was without one. The way you attach a crotch strap (normally) is it's permanently attached in the back (via trislide) and has a loop on the front. You get into the shoulder straps, thread your waist strap through the loop (after routing the strap between your legs) and buckle up. Easy-peasy.

 

[robertarak]

Slimplicity:

HOG Backplate and Wing Complete Kit

(also a very clever sales aid)

 

[52brandon]

with the Transplate specifically, any of the D-rings, except the one on each shoulder attaching the shoulder strap to the quick-release strap, can be removed. As can the chest strap. The crotch strap can be added as well. So really the differences are the padded shoulder straps, the quick-release buckle, the D-rings that hold them on, the chest strap which also attaches to that D-ring, and the absence of a crotch-strap. But the shoulder strap pads, the quick-release buckle, and the D-ring that connects the 2 are the only things that can't be changed. They can be made pretty similar to one another though

 

[eelnoraa]

when I had transplate, I had issue with clipping and unclipping. Mainly, when I clip off an item, I put it on one of the d-ring. When I try to retrieve it, I reached for a different d-ring (accidentally) and couldn't find the item I want. Yes, I eventually remove one of the shoulder d-ring. But since there is another set for the quick release attachement, I have had clip thing to that d-ring before making finding what I want difficult.

Keep in mind, especially in colder water and thick suit, you really can't see your d-ring(s). You go with msucal memory and feel of hand. Yes, you can probably space the d-rings further, but between the proper location and the length of bolt snap, there isn't really enough space on shoulder hardness for 2 set of d-ring so that they are not confusing.

As for stratun strap, the only reason they are needed is because the shoulder harness can slide off your shoulder due to improper adjustment. So why not fix it the right way by adjust the harness properly

 

[victorzamora]

52brandon, the other thing you're forgetting are the plates that the buckles go in to.

So, why would I buy a "comfort harness" (Elite2 and Transplate and many others are identical) when I have to pull off some d-rings to get access to the ones I need, wear extra lead to compensate for padding that does me no good, pay for the sternum strap that I won't ever use and will only ever get in my way, deal with buckles that add little-to-no functionality while getting in the way and providing an extra failure point, and then have to deal with the plates those attach to??

If you have a shoulder injury or other physical ailment that keeps you from easily being able to use a standard harness, there are a few BETTER ways around it.

1) Halcyon Cinch system, or setup like the Hollis Ride, where slack in the shoulders can be gained/removed by tightening the waist.
2) Single buckle sewn-in custom to one side only, low enough to be out of the way, and not requiring goofy plates/rings
3) Harness cut on one side and an extra waist buckle added. Similar to single buckle custom-sewn-in, but with less effort/cost and using only very standard scuba gear (knife+buckle).

 

[Peter_C]

I probably missed it, but why would you want to have extra buoyant foam padding that only requires more weight to sink?

The problem with more d-rings is you can accidentally clip to the wrong ring. Where as with a basic HOG harness you set the d-rings where you want them and they are easy to access, and always where you expect them to be.

The sternum strap is known to get in the way of many drysuit inflator valves.

A 2" crotch strap is important to me. I keep the shoulder straps looser to make donning and doffing easier, then pull everything tight with the crotch strap. I keep a slight V in the waist harness. My kit doesn't move and is comfortable whether I am in boardshorts with no shirt on, or in my drysuit.

Everyone I know that has started in a fluffy foam padded harness has eventually switched to a basic HOG harness. Although most everyone I know diving locally typically starts out using a HOG harness.

 

[52brandon]

52brandon, the other thing you're forgetting are the plates that the buckles go in to.

So, why would I buy a "comfort harness" (Elite2 and Transplate and many others are identical) when I have to pull off some d-rings to get access to the ones I need, wear extra lead to compensate for padding that does me no good, pay for the sternum strap that I won't ever use and will only ever get in my way, deal with buckles that add little-to-no functionality while getting in the way and providing an extra failure point, and then have to deal with the plates those attach to??

If you have a shoulder injury or other physical ailment that keeps you from easily being able to use a standard harness, there are a few BETTER ways around it.

1) Halcyon Cinch system, or setup like the Hollis Ride, where slack in the shoulders can be gained/removed by tightening the waist.
2) Single buckle sewn-in custom to one side only, low enough to be out of the way, and not requiring goofy plates/rings
3) Harness cut on one side and an extra waist buckle added. Similar to single buckle custom-sewn-in, but with less effort/cost and using only very standard scuba gear (knife+buckle).

mine was never any issue to add/remove d-rings. It takes all of 2 minutes to remove a shoulder strap and reinstall it. It takes longer to remove/add a d-ring on a basic harness. If you just plan on not using the d-rings, you can take em off the straps before even installing it. I like the sternum strap. It's not like it's a liability, and you don't have to use it if you don't want. Price is a good reason. And the only good reason IMO. But I got mine in a package deal for cheap, so I'm not terribly worried about that in my own case

 

[WhiteSands]

In discussions on BPW harnesses, there's a lot of opinions floating around that a harness isn't "tec" if it has a sternum strap, unnecessary D rings, or comfortable padding, etc. It felt like it was really just a matter of in-group/out-group mentality, with the bare bones harness having been around before comfort harnesses, and since that's what all the cool kids are using comfort harnesses became heresy and a mark of a "tech-wannabe."

I'm interested in a comparison of the actual functionality, though. What difference is there in stability with the shoulder strap + sternum strap setup, versus the shoulder + crotch strap setup? What about harnesses that have both a crotch strap and a sternum strap?

I've used both types (Diverite Transpac, now Aluminum BP with self made 1 piece Hog harness)

Sternum strap - Not necessary. But you'll probably feel more secure with it. Use it if you like it, but functionally it's not needed on a properly adjusted harness.

Unnecessary rings - Up to you I guess. I don't find them necessary though, but I don't like to hang unnecessary things off my harness.

Comfortable padding - Good to have especially below shoulder straps. You might be fine with bare webbing in temperate conditions, but when you're carrying 30lbs of weights for drysuit diving in cold waters, and having to hike a distance to the dive site, you're going to wish you had padding.

Crotch strap - must have. This is what cinches the whole rig tight on you (along with your waist strap).

You didn't ask about quick release buckles, but here's my take. When you're carrying multiple tanks and stages in a cave/wreck, you probably don't want a potential failure point from quick release buckles. But if you're diving recreationally with one tank, quick release buckles might be a good thing.

Just take note where they're placed. If you are going to clip off lights on your shoulder D-rings, you probably don't want them near where you're going to strap them with rubber bands (like on the Transpac).

Take note though, some harnesses I've seen, like the Transplate comfort harness, is really hard to adjust if you're not just using the quick pull straps. You can't really move the position of the shoulder D-rings around easily because of how it's configured.

---------- Post added December 31st, 2013 at 04:19 PM ----------

Not wanting unnecessary ornamentation makes sense if cost is a concern, but what about extra D-rings is a liability? From the way some people talked about them in other threads it felt like drowning from D-ring entanglements was a daily occurrence or something crazy. Most scuba gear appears full of designs, etc. that don't serve any practical purpose and are just there for aesthetic reasons, so having extra D-rings because it looks cooler makes sense if there's no real downside.

Clipping off/on things on shoulder D-rings will be done by feel when you're in water. If you have additional D-rings, it'll be confusing to figure out which one to clip on to, or where a torch was clipped off. By having only 1, you remove this ambiguity.

Sternum strap interfering with some people's drysuit inflators makes sense. But in designs with no crotch strap is the sternum strap not necessary? I hate the sternum strap on my jacket BC, but am not a big fan of crotch straps. Wondering if the waist/shoulder straps will be enough support when diving heavy doubles or if crotch strap is necessary in that case.

The sternum strap cannot replace the crotch strap. The crotch strap is what pulls the whole rig down on you, and tightens up the shoulder straps and keeps it there. Without it, your rig can float upwards, and the sternum strap cannot mitigate this.