Basic vs Comfort Harness

[Vegan Shark]

In discussions on BPW harnesses, there's a lot of opinions floating around that a harness isn't "tec" if it has a sternum strap, unnecessary D rings, or comfortable padding, etc. It felt like it was really just a matter of in-group/out-group mentality, with the bare bones harness having been around before comfort harnesses, and since that's what all the cool kids are using comfort harnesses became heresy and a mark of a "tech-wannabe."

I'm interested in a comparison of the actual functionality, though. What difference is there in stability with the shoulder strap + sternum strap setup, versus the shoulder + crotch strap setup? What about harnesses that have both a crotch strap and a sternum strap?

 

[robertarak]

Well "unnecessary D rings" are...unnecessary. Anything unnecessary are considered more of liabilty then asset. As for the chest strap, the main problem is that it really is unnecessary, and that most if not all of them use a plastic buckle. Techie types try very hard to stay away from anything plastic...all metal buckles, snaps, rings, hooks, etc. To make a chest strap functional, easily releasable, not interfearing with drysuit inflation and metal would be near impossible...and why do so for something that is unnecessary? The padding is again unnecessary if you are diving a thick wetsuit, or drysuit with thick undergarments that provide plenty of padding. If you are a tropical water diver that needs some extra paddiing when diving in a t-shirt I so go for it.

 

[DevonDiver]

'Tech' has nothing to do with it, although some sub-groups (i.e. 'DIR') within the technical community have specific standards that relate to harness configuration.

Beside 'group doctrines' the basic harness is generally prevalent. That is because most divers simply don't need anything more. They are perfectly comfortable (the concept of 'comfort' harness is a misnomer really...a marketing gimmick...selling sand to Arabs and snow to Eskimos...) and have all the functionality you'd need.

The wisdom is to buy the significantly cheaper basic harness, dive with it for a while. Then...only if you still feel the need.. upgrade to a significantly more expensive comfort/deluxe harness. The vast majority don't.. Of those who do it the other way around (comfort harness first purchase), an awful lot of those harnesses end up in storage under the stairs or sold for cents on the dollar on eBay...

A crotch strap is important. For most rigs, it is the lynch-pin that holds the rig together and keeps everything tight and stable on the diver.

Sternum straps.... well, I've never seen a need for them. I think it is 99% just a play on uninformed consumer expectation.... you think the harness is better if it looks like a rucksack right? Hence the sternum strap... a pointless gizmo, that gets in the way most of the time. 1% of divers might want a sternum strap because they have exceptionally narrow shoulders...or it gives some stability when walking distances overland to/from entry points. So unless you're a pencil-build or walk kilometers with your rig on your back, then you don't have a need. I can't recall any stories about people accidentally falling out of their rigs on a dive though....

D-Rings are always a laugh. Recreational BCDs are sold to the unwitting based on the premise that 'more is better'. More isn't better. You need what you need, no more. You just need to be able to adjust them to where you need them. If you can't adjust the D-ring location on a rig, then the rig design is flawed.

You need:

3x D-Rings (2x shoulders / 1 x left hip) for basic technical diving with doubles and a single stage (or multiple stages if single-side stacking as some agencies/instructor teach).

+1 D-Ring (right hip) for technical diving with doubles and 2+ stages/deco if stowing the deco/stages on both sides.

+1 D-Ring (rear crotch strap) for leashing spent stages/decos (cave and trimix diving), or for stowing reels, DSMB etc.

+1 D-Ring (front crotch strap) for scootering (DPV)

That is all. You could break world open-circuit depth or cave penetration records with that many. Any more is unnecessary clutter and will cause more problems with task-loading than it saves..

 

[Vegan Shark]

Not wanting unnecessary ornamentation makes sense if cost is a concern, but what about extra D-rings is a liability? From the way some people talked about them in other threads it felt like drowning from D-ring entanglements was a daily occurrence or something crazy. Most scuba gear appears full of designs, etc. that don't serve any practical purpose and are just there for aesthetic reasons, so having extra D-rings because it looks cooler makes sense if there's no real downside.

Sternum strap interfering with some people's drysuit inflators makes sense. But in designs with no crotch strap is the sternum strap not necessary? I hate the sternum strap on my jacket BC, but am not a big fan of crotch straps. Wondering if the waist/shoulder straps will be enough support when diving heavy doubles or if crotch strap is necessary in that case.

 

[robertarak]

Extra D-rings tend to get in the way more then them help. Typically, the right shoulder D-ring is used to secure the primary regulator on long hose when not in use, primary light (head) and back-up light. The back-up light is then secured to the webbing by means of a rubber strap (tire inner tube) to keep neatly stowed and easily deployable
. Extra D-rings would not onle serve no purpose, but be in the way.

Crotch straps are a must with a BP/W. They really do hold everything in place. Later in your diving career when you find the joy of scooter diving, the crotch strap will be your best friend. The scooter tow cord clips to the D-ring on your crotch strap and pulls you along without pulling your arm from it's socket.

 

[Imla]

Personally, when I was diving a back inflate vest, (Zeagle Tech) I never used the sternum strap as it interfered with the use of my drysuit. I didn't use the sternum strap on my Oceanic biolite when I was diving tropics either, as it was uncomfortable. I didn't have crotchstraps on either of these
Usually when helping on OW courses, more often I had to take off sternum straps on students, because it would interfere with the use of the drysuit.


I have ended up loving my crotch strap as it seems it solved all the issues I have gotten irritated about.

So +1 to crotchstrap... -1 to sternumstrap

 

[tomfcrist]

I dive a transplate harness, with a chest strap, and a drysuit....I have zero issues with the placement of my inflator hose. That being said, the reason I use the transplate harness is due to shoulder issues, where a traditional hog harness is essentially painful for me to get in and out of.

 

[Bob DBF]

I'm not in any group / team dive formula however, I understand why standardization can be a big plus when working in a group and would conform to the norm if I chose to dive with one of those groups. It sounds like you are interested in going tech, just drink the cool aid, there are a lot worse things you could do, and if you don't like it then quit.

Because I dive mainly in a 7mm farmer john, I don't actually need the padding on a comfort harness. I have used unpadded harnesses without any thermal protection and haven't had a problem but, I don't see an issue with someone using padding if they want. Same with sternum strap.

I wear the crotch strap most of the time, depending on how the rig fits. I've used them since I started diving, and until recently they were provided on jacket BC's.

As for D-rings, if you don't need them why buy them.

I started diving with a BP in '63, no BC, so I have not worried about being a cool kid in decades.

If you think about diving the North Coast, let me know.



Bob
--------------------------------------
I think that advocating unsafe and dangerous practices is both stupid and foolish. That is why I don't tell people to do what I do. Dsix36

 

[Vegan Shark]

Thanks for all the advice. The D rings on comfort harnesses look spaced enough that they shouldn't interfere with each other, but maybe I'd have to try using them to see. On my jacket BC I stopped using the sternum strap since if it's tight I have difficulty breathing the next day, and if it's loose it does nothing. Rig never felt less tight just with the shoulders/waist strap, so thought maybe that would be enough with a BPW too.

I really like the look of the Hollis Elite 2 harness, but alas only a sternum strap. Guess I'll go with the Hollis solo for the crotch strap.

Is getting into a crotch strap when your gear is set up in your car trunk difficult? Being able to sit down on the edge and just fasten a waist strap seems a lot easier in theory.

 

[Nwcid]

We started with "comfort harnesses", basic HOG straps are way more comfortable, easy, and always set up right. This includes diving in shorts and rash guard.