Bashing Each other, It is not necessary. I seem to have done it then I apologize.

[rmediver2002]

I hope some of our members read Chickdivers post and take it to heart.

In todays culture it seems to be unacceptable to tell any one that they're wrong no matter how nice it's done. The fact is though that some are wrong and some are right whether we like it or not.

All the "Im ok. Your ok" touchy feely make every one feel good marketing junk doesn't mean you can teach, supervise or even get them back at all.

Maybe it isn't hard to become a DM or an instructor and that might seem cool when you're out card collecting and patting yourself on the back but then one day you find yourself in the water in the middle of a bonified nightmare. The card pushers won't be there to make you feel good then. You'll either do it or you won't.

It's more fun and safer for every one to do the work up front.

Well, I'm probably wrong cuz you won't hear that in many dive shops. LOL

But if you are saying and teaching the right things you need to consider some type of promotion to touch more people as well...

I think this is one good side effect of the perceived elitism of DIR. It keeps people talking about it and gives some people a reason to try and be a part of it.

I do not know if this was the original intent but it seems to have worked out to be a original and unique type of marketing...

 

[Natasha]

gedunk:
I agree.
It might take a little more effort to be kind, but I think it goes a lot farther.

 

[CBulla]

My personal take.. she put the information in the post because she's proud of what she's pursuing, even though its an aside in relevance towards what she's working with.

What was completely overlooked is that she mentioned shaking down new gear and having a bit of trouble establishing buoyancy. The fact that her buoyancy issue was completely overlooked but her dive goals were focused on was sad. It reminded me of the SAT where you read the story and identified parts of the story as part of reading and comprehension.

Maybe I'm just good at picking up on different writing styles, who knows, but I think that a lot of posts (both in those threads and in this one) could have been avoided had the question she had asked been looked at and not the rest of the extraneous information.

 

[Phish-phood]

I read through the whole thread about bouyancy control and to be honest what struck me the most was the attitude of the author. What started out as a constructive thread with some good advice and some genuine concerns voiced as to the wisdom of rushing through courses turned into a slightly bad tempered affair and from what I could see most of this was due to the defensive nature of the postings made by the author. Confidence when diving is a great thing, as is the enthusiasm the author clearly has for the sport. There is a very fine line between confidence and cockiness however and to my eyes there seemed to be a slight cockiness about some of the postings which will immediately get the backs up of some of the more experienced divers. Perhaps rather than getting so defensive and simple, thank you for your concerns I have taken them on board would have sufficed.

I have only 60 odd dives and I have started my DM training. I was asked recently when I planned on finishing it and my response was somewhere along the lines of 'I have no idea' I have 101 things that I want to do first before I finish because I want to be as useful a DM as I can. I want to do a wreck/cave diving course and learn the basics of line laying, overhead environment diving etc. I want to do a Nitrox course and I want to understand and appreciate the advantages/disadvantages so that when a student asks me I can explain. I want to map more than one dive site and I don't want it to be the inland site that I do most of my training in and could map with my eyes closed. I want to do bad viz and no viz dives and learn how to deal with them I took a chamber ride recently, not because I had to but because I wanted to, to see what it was like and now I know and now I can tell students. I will finish my DM course but people who started with me will probably be long finished by that time, but I don't mind I'm in no hurry!

But that's just my opinion and everyone is free to agree, disagree, partially agree or tell me I'm rubbish.

 

[miketsp]

What was completely overlooked is that she mentioned shaking down new gear and having a bit of trouble establishing buoyancy. The fact that her buoyancy issue was completely overlooked but her dive goals were focused on was sad. It reminded me of the SAT where you read the story and identified parts of the story as part of reading and comprehension.

Maybe I'm just good at picking up on different writing styles, who knows, but I think that a lot of posts (both in those threads and in this one) could have been avoided had the question she had asked been looked at and not the rest of the extraneous information.

This is a gross exaggeration.
Please reread the thread - her buoyancy issue was not overlooked and people certainly did not focus on her dive goals. The first posts were just tips inserted among positive contributions. Her over defensive reaction provoked the rest.
I summed it up in
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=628103&postcount=19

 

[CBulla]

I saw and read it all. One day I'm going to write a case study about the communications online. Nothing bad, but after a LOT of years of this I've seen this round robin more times than can count.

Anyway, there are better subjects to rant on about! Like Jet Fins vs. Splits!

 

[The Kraken]

I got me sum jets and just cut 'em up the middle lak I wuz guttin a hawg, now I gots me sum splits . . .

 

[H2Andy]

if the goal is to teach someone, insulting them is not going to cut it.

i find that it's not what you say so much as how you say it that makes the
biggest impression.

and i'm not talking about sugar-coating stuff, just not being rude:

would you rather hear:

"listen, X, you have a problem here. if you do it this way, you could get hurt. here's
why. but there's a few ways to do it better. here they are. here's why they
are better."

or:

"X, you are dumb. can't you see what you're doing is dangerous? you should have
learned a lot more in your OW class. you got cheated out of your money."

at the same time, you can take a diver to water but you
can't make them safe. it's up to the person to listen to you
and apply what you tell them.

that's up to them.

my goal would be for any question to lead to lots of answers
which explain the problem, the alternatives, and the logic
behind them, and not answers which berate or belittle the
user asking the question.

 

[chickdiver]

For the most part, I agree with you, Andy. Unfortunately, too many "professionals" are more interested in making money than in TEACHING diving. Every OW student thinks that their instructor is the "best ever" as they don't know what they don't know- sometimes untill much much later in their careers. Trying to tell someone that they:

a. haven't been taught all they need to know

-or-

b. have been handed a load of crap

by someone they admire is not often accomplished with niceties, sometimes it requires the 2x4.

 

[H2Andy]

agreed. but you don't have to use "niceties" (my term was "sugar coat") to get your point across without being rude, unless you consider that "if you do x you could get hurt" and then explaining why is a nicety.