Banded/Unbanded Debate

[BigJetDriver]

all examples of using gear to compensate for gear.

Why not just buy the right size wing in the first place?

Jeff,

This is truly not a bad suggestion! As they say, horses for courses! Sometimes, however, folks can not just afford to have several wings for diffferent jobs.

Uncle Ricky, for instance, has about three different wings by his own count, but he's been at this for longer than some of us have been on this planet. Many people can just not afford that luxury!

 

[JeffG]

Jeff,

This is truly not a bad suggestion! As they say, horses for courses! Sometimes, however, folks can not just afford to have several wings for diffferent jobs.

Uncle Ricky, for instance, has about three different wings by his own count, but he's been at this for longer than some of us have been on this planet. Many people can just not afford that luxury!

When it comes down to technical diving, I'm in to my scooter for about $6000 CAN, tanks/regs/drysuits/light thousands and thousands more.

So why would I nickle rocket a $400 wing?

But I do understand the concept of try to squeeze more out of the scuba dollar, but you shouldn't try to justify it by the "lack of scientific evidence". Be honest and call it what it is....being cheap.



Edit: and the "banded" wing isn't going to kill you, I just consider its failure characteristics to be un optimal.

 

[Tamas]

Here a number of images I quickly found in public forums that demonstrate the taco-ing affect of the wings, the air shift and uneven air volumes affecting trim and config and huge flapping portions of material extending way past the tanks and even the diver

http://www.scubaboard.com/image.php?u=30588&dateline=1122928524
http://www.jonnythan.com/pictures/dutch_7-31-05/image/img_3129.jpg
http://www.jonnythan.com/pictures/dutch_7-31-05/image/img_3139.jpg
http://jonnythan.com/pictures/dutch_springs_4-9-05/image/img_2637.jpg
http://jonnythan.com/pictures/st_lawrence_8-27-05/image/img_7786.jpg


***DISCLAIMER: these images are not meant to single out individuals or comment on their gear selection or diving style (since that would not be proper!!!) these are simply images that stuck in my memory from prior viewing

 

[pants!]

We see of course that you too, Mr. Pants, (odd name that, by the way), have an irrational and deep-seated fear of the killer BWOD.

Why Mr. Pants, no one said anything about you personally

No one said anything about me? BS.

 

[JeffG]

Here a number of images I quickly found in public forums that demonstrate the taco-ing affect of the wings, the air shift and uneven air volumes affecting trim and config and huge flapping portions of material extending way past the tanks and even the diver

http://www.scubaboard.com/image.php?u=30588&dateline=1122928524
http://www.jonnythan.com/pictures/dutch_7-31-05/image/img_3129.jpg
http://www.jonnythan.com/pictures/dutch_7-31-05/image/img_3139.jpg
http://jonnythan.com/pictures/dutch_springs_4-9-05/image/img_2637.jpg
http://jonnythan.com/pictures/st_lawrence_8-27-05/image/img_7786.jpg


***DISCLAIMER: these images are not meant to single out individuals or comment on their gear selection or diving style (since that would not be proper!!!) these are simply images that stuck in my memory from prior viewing

For the most part (I didn't look at all the images).

Everything looks fine. Maybe you shouldn't use Above water logic to an underwater problem.

 

[Tamas]

For the most part (I didn't look at all the images).

Everything looks fine. Maybe you shouldn't use Above water logic to an underwater problem.

Sorry I don't follow.

But perhaps we are not looking at the same images?????......the underwater taco's that can cause flipping, the huge excess material that can get snagged or tangled and also cause bad drag, the irregular air pockets lifting/tilting the diver to one side or another promoting bad trim and uncontrolled movements....those are all normal??? WOW! I would consider those more of an issue then the silly bands.

But perhaps there are double standards? Or are they the norm in those circles?

Maybe you shouldn't use Above water logic to an underwater problem.

And wasn't that the basis for a lot the posters above that implied problems yet never dove or saw bungeed wings in action?

 

[Tamas]

From an design standpoint, bungeed wings appear to be non-bungee wings with the bungees added. To me that makes the non-bungee wings simpler and therefore more desirable by default. To go with the bungees, I want to know that the bungees solve actual underwater problems with the non-bungee wings (that aren't skills issues, or issues with poor selection of equipment). There may be no benefits and no costs either way, but I like to apply "simpler is better".

But that is like saying that shoes with laces are a complex piece of equipment and everybody should be wearing slip-ons or velcroed shoes.....simpler is better right?

Better yet are downright dangerous and should be banned.....maybe we should get a group started that preaches about lace-less shoes to the general public. After all we wouldn't want people cutting off their circulation or getting entrapped by a blade of grass as they walk around, not to mention the times when they need to dump their shoes really fast and have to untie them before they can do so!

Heavens no! The insanity!!!!

 

[Dan Gibson]

This is not an advantage of the bungeed wing. You can do the same thing with a non bungeed wing to balance out multiple stages if necessary. Therefore, there is no advantage to the bungeed wing in this case. In addition, the term balanced rig has nothing to do with roll.

Another advantage that the bungies offer, is the ability to restrict the air in part of the bladder, this aplication can be used when slinging bottles, that way you can let more air on the side of the bottle to offset the weight of the bottle on that side.

I've never tried this, since I dive a very balanced rig, but seems reasonable to me.

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in on this subject.

 

[lamont]

But that is like saying that shoes with laces are a complex piece of equipment and everybody should be wearing slip-ons or velcroed shoes.....simpler is better right?

Better yet are downright dangerous and should be banned.....maybe we should get a group started that preaches about lace-less shoes to the general public. After all we wouldn't want people cutting off their circulation or getting entrapped by a blade of grass as they walk around, not to mention the times when they need to dump their shoes really fast and have to untie them before they can do so!

Heavens no! The insanity!!!!

s/I like to apply simpler is better/I like to apply simpler is better to scuba diving/g

 

[Tamas]

s/I like to apply simpler is better/I like to apply simpler is better to scuba diving/g

YES!!! but bungees do not add complexity any more then long hoses, spring heels, isolation manifolds, dual regs, dry suits, canister lights and cords, reels.....etc. :11: