Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[bsee65]

I think it does.

If she was purposefully attempting to elude a DM she did not want and who she felt was imposed upon her, we are in a very different situation. A DM would have to recognize that this extraordinary situation is in effect in order to deal with it effectively. The DM's normal gentle reminders to follow the dive plan will be singularly ineffective. I don't know how often DMs have to deal with divers running away from them, but I imagine she did not have a lot of experience with that. One could argue that she should have recognized that something was wrong when she was pushed away, but at that point she would have to decide what to do. Do I overpower this renegade diver (paying customer) and haul her back to the boat, or do I let her go and deal with it later?

But, John, if she was fighting back because she was under the effects of Nitrogen and wanted to go down, how is that any different from fighting for some other reason? Are you saying that a narced diver wouldn't resist an attempt to be brought up?

 

[Only halcyon]

The word 'fighting' in this thread isn't really the right word. There was very little struggle and attempts to gain the attention of Ms Wood were more in line with trying to get her attention from where I was. Everyone should remeber that even though Ms Wood didnt drop like a rock and the event took place over a few minutes it does take time for the brain to process the info. I felt it myself. Lets face it almost none of us will ever see a diver swim into certain harm right infront of of eyes. From my own prespective, I initialy thought that she had seen a shark and was going to check it out and thats what perked my interest, and then you see the diver go deeper and alittle further away and before you know it she is too deep and the distance is too far to safely bridge. All the while trying to process the info based on prev exp that divers do not simply swim off into the blue on perfect sunny days/ good viz / perfect dive conditions on resort dives. If the the water was rough and was raining with a strong ciurrent I feel divers enter the water with a different mind set, than perfect conditions and there fore it takes longer to process what is happening when something actually goes wrong.

 

[ItsBruce]

I simply want to remind everyone that hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Ann Marie]

:shocked2:
Wow...... I mean no disrespect and am trying to position myself as politely as possible as a 'devil's advocate,' but for an Instructor to say that when a DM is hired as a buddy they ONLY have 'buddy' responsibilities is pretty appalling....

Once you are 'certified' as a DM, you have responsibilities that are now higher/above the normal 'buddy' responsibilities whether you are for hire or not. If you can't accept that, don't get your ticket punched with DM on it.

Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I "meant" to say. I agree completly with what I put in red. A DM should have the training to recognize and react to problems.

What I was trying to get at was that if the DM recognized that there was a problem when it would have put her life at risk, I don't blame her for not risking her life in an attemt to save Ms. Woods.

 

[Ann Marie]

The word 'fighting' in this thread isn't really the right word. There was very little struggle and attempts to gain the attention of Ms Wood were more in line with trying to get her attention from where I was. Everyone should remeber that even though Ms Wood didnt drop like a rock and the event took place over a few minutes it does take time for the brain to process the info. I felt it myself. Lets face it almost none of us will ever see a diver swim into certain harm right infront of of eyes. From my own prespective, I initialy thought that she had seen a shark and was going to check it out and thats what perked my interest, and then you see the diver go deeper and alittle further away and before you know it she is too deep and the distance is too far to safely bridge. All the while trying to process the info based on prev exp that divers do not simply swim off into the blue on perfect sunny days/ good viz / perfect dive conditions on resort dives. If the the water was rough and was raining with a strong ciurrent I feel divers enter the water with a different mind set, than perfect conditions and there fore it takes longer to process what is happening when something actually goes wrong.

That is what I was trying to get at in my analogy with the camera.

What I don't understand in this (perhaps it was discussed before) was that if the Instructor was hired to be Ms. Woods buddy (is this true?) then she should have been closer to her and might have been able to handle this with a better outcome. If she had been closer, she could have then forced Ms. Woods to a more shallow depth and then to the surface.

One of the skills taught in a rescue course is how to deal with 'incorporative' divers. If she had been close enough, she should have been taught that if she came behind the person, she could gain control by grabbing the tank and keeping herself away from Ms. Woods grasp. I feel sorry for the Instructor, I can't imagine the 'what ifs' she's going through.

 

[boulderjohn]

What I don't understand in this (perhaps it was discussed before) was that if the Instructor was hired to be Ms. Woods buddy (is this true?) then she should have been closer to her and might have been able to handle this with a better outcome.

The question was whether or not Mrs. Wood wanted to hire the DM. There is a good indication that she was required to do this against her will by the operator because she had not been diving for a while,she and may have intentionally tried to lose her unwanted buddy.

 

[boulderjohn]

But, John, if she was fighting back because she was under the effects of Nitrogen and wanted to go down, how is that any different from fighting for some other reason? Are you saying that a narced diver wouldn't resist an attempt to be brought up?

I am not speculating as to the degree to which she was narced. My suspicion is simply that she did not want a DM buddy restricting her dive and took active steps to get away, an action that would be entirely within her character, according to people who knew her. Onlyhalcyon's description that follows your post is in keeping with those suspicions. As I said, a DM in that situation would be hard pressed to understand what was happening.

 

[Web Monkey]

I am not speculating as to the degree to which she was narced. My suspicion is simply that she did not want a DM buddy restricting her dive and took active steps to get away, an action that would be entirely within her character, according to people who knew her. Onlyhalcyon's description that follows your post is in keeping with those suspicions. As I said, a DM in that situation would be hard pressed to understand what was happening.

Understanding diver motivation really isn't necessary or even useful. The only thing the DM/OWI would need to understand is that Mrs. Woods was not respecting the depth limit.

I'm not implying that a diver @ 65' on a 60' dive should be immediately hauled back to the surface, however a continued descent after a "level off" or "ascend" sign would certainly rate this action.

With a reasonable amount of attention, this could have been done while still well within the NDL and with minimal risk to anybody.

Terry

 

[stadevene]

In terms of buddy distance, and dive planning ... I'm exactly the same diver that I was last week, last month, last year, last decade, I see no need to change.

I don't expect you to change, I'm sure you don't need to. You've got many thousands of dives more than I do and as the saying goes, forgotten more than I know. Some of us aspire to your level of knowledge, experience and skill. You're one of the divers who I could learn a great deal from I'm sure, I know I've learned from your postings.

I guess I'm putting all the fault finding and finger pointing to the side or have moved on from that. I've always felt the importance of this sub forum is to identify what caused the situation and what we can do to prevent this from happening to ourselves. To quote the rules:

The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving. Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow.

Throughout the few weeks this thread has gone on I've come to some conclusions based on the available information. I recognize areas where in hindsight the DM messed up, I don't know if that holds true without hindsight though. I don't feel I'm in a position to make that call.

What I am in the positon of is to identify areas where _I_ can improve. I've learned lessons from this thread. I will be better. The purpose of this forum has met my needs, I hope it has met others too and this event is not wasted.

 

[Thalassamania]

Sorry, I was on a bit of a short fuse yesterday.

You are right that these sorts of threads need to make us all think. When I teach CPR I always warn my students that you need to decide now, not at the scene, what you will and will not do. The same goes for these sorts of incidents, you need to decide now what is reasonable for you and what is not reasonable for you, and then abide by that decision if you are ever faced with the actuality.

Oh, BTW, if your decision in incompatible with the duties of being an Instructor or a DM, don't put yourself in the position of having others depend on you, it isn't fair to them, it isn't fair to yourself.