Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[cappyjon431]

I too am sorry you feel that way. There are some people here who have posted very similar speculation. IMHO the reaction you got was based on frustrations that have developed in this thread that have nothing to do with you and the fact that it had been said before here. Not everyone has time to read all the posts on a long thread and not everyone reacted well to that speculation the first time it came up.

Don't let it deter you... this is a great link for you to read http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/278275-survival-kit-basic-divers-sb.html it will give you a different perspective I think.:blinking:

There is great information and great people here please don't be put off too quickly!

Michelle's Guy, you should not apologize for posting speculation, because until we get all of the facts, your guess is just as good as all the other "experts." I believe that I was the first one to suggest suicide on this thread (maybe on page 6?), and I was told that my suggestion was total "speculation" and that we should not take the thread in that direction. I pointed out that at the time (before any facts were in) all we had was speculation. I also described an incident where I actually worked on a liveaboard with a diver who was planning to commit suicide on the boat. These things do happen, although we often don't want to talk about it.

 

[Thalassamania]

Michelle's Guy, you should not apologize for posting speculation, because until we get all of the facts, your guess is just as good as all the other "experts." I believe that I was the first one to suggest suicide on this thread (maybe on page 5?), and I was told that my suggestion was total "speculation" and that we should not take the thread in that direction. I pointed out that at the time (before any facts were in) all we had was speculation. I also described an incident where I actually worked on a liveaboard with a diver who was planning to commit suicide on the boat. These things do happen, although we often don't want to talk about it.

Speculation that has not basis what-so-ever is rather a waste of everyone's time. Speculation that is based (however remotely) on critical thinking that is applied to even the smallest clue, is interesting and useful, at least to those with expertise.

 

[cappyjon431]

Speculation that has not basis what-so-ever is rather a waste of everyone's time. Speculation that is based (however remotely) on critical thinking that is applied to even the smallest clue, is interesting and useful, at least to those with expertise.

Agreed, but who is to say that a diver being narc'd, or an incompetent DM, or being unfamiliar with equipment (etc.) is more valid than attempted suicide? All of these speculations appeared very early in the thread, before any facts were in. They are all conjecture based on limited facts.

Divers do kill themselves. I know of one cave diving buddy who did and one liveaboard guest who attempted it. The fact (assuming it is so) that the victim might have tusseled with the DM opens the door to this hypothesis. The suggestion that she was in poor health and might have been depressed also add to the possibility.

 

[bleeb]

Agreed, but who is to say that a diver being narc'd, or an incompetent DM, or being unfamiliar with equipment (etc.) is more valid than attempted suicide? All of these speculations appeared very early in the thread, before any facts were in. They are all conjecture based on limited facts.

In this latest go-around, it's maybe not that the ideas mentioned are speculation. They're also ideas that tend to provoke strong emotions. But mostly, the very negative reaction is probably mostly because these ideas have all been extensively and loudly gone over in this thread multiple times already.

 

[Web Monkey]

Agreed, but who is to say that a diver being narc'd, or an incompetent DM, or being unfamiliar with equipment (etc.) is more valid than attempted suicide?

Divers get narced every day, the oceans are full of DMs I wouldn't trust to keep my lunch safe and divers that can't do a safe ascent even with an upline, while "suicide by SCUBA" is hardly even on the radar.

This doesn't mean that suicide is impossible, only that it's tremendously less likely than the other possibilities.

Terry

 

[cappyjon431]

Divers get narced every day, the oceans are full of DMs I wouldn't trust to keep my lunch safe and divers that can't do a safe ascent even with an upline, while "suicide by SCUBA" is hardly even on the radar.

This doesn't mean that suicide is impossible, only that it's tremendously less likely than the other possibilities.

Terry

My point is that all of these scenerios are conjecture and nothing more. It is easy to build a case for any of them, based on the very limited factual information that has been posted in this thread. The truth is that early in the thread there were several other posters who thought the same thing and discussed it off the board. If we are to thoroughly analyze all possible causes of a diving incident, why is this one taboo to discuss? Some arguments supporting the suicide hypothesis:
1. Victim is seen struggling with DM
2. Victim has history of health problems (stroke) which can lead to depression, frequently in the elderly.
3. Victim hires a DM. What better way to avoid the "no suicide" clause on most life insurance policies?
4. There are documented (admittedly rare) cases of suicide via diving. It is not without precedent.

In no way would I be so foolish as to claim that this is the definite cause of this incident. It is one of many possibilities, all of them relying on conjecture. I would argue that murder of a friend or spouse during diving is also very rare ("off the radar" if you will), but if investigators were to rule it out because of it initially being based on conjecture (or very rare), we would have a few more murderers out on the street.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

My point is that all of these scenerios are conjecture and nothing more. It is easy to build a case for any of them, based on the very limited factual information that has been posted in this thread. The truth is that early in the thread there were several other posters who thought the same thing and discussed it off the board. If we are to thoroughly analyze all possible causes of a diving incident, why is this one taboo to discuss? Some arguments supporting the suicide hypothesis:
1. Victim is seen struggling with DM
2. Victim has history of health problems (stroke) which can lead to depression, frequently in the elderly.
3. Victim hires a DM. What better way to avoid the "no suicide" clause on most life insurance policies?
4. There are documented (admittedly rare) cases of suicide via diving. It is not without precedent.

In no way would I be so foolish as to claim that this is the definite cause of this incident. It is one of many possibilities, all of them relying on conjecture. I would argue that murder of a friend or spouse during diving is also very rare ("off the radar" if you will), but if investigators were to rule it out because of it initially being based on conjecture (or very rare), we would have a few more murderers out on the street.

Why should it be any different here than in the general population? Suicide is a topic most people shy away from in most conversations. People don't know what to say, don't understand it and this allows a lot of misconceptions to continue. People in this state are in so much mental/emotional/physical pain they don't/can't think of the impact their action has on others... not just family but rescue providers, witnesses and so on.. it is a tragedy for so many people. Suicide is possibly the most selfish act a person can perform but when someone is in that state they can't see it! I am not going to hijack too far with this but if someone IS suicidal... they need help and if no one is willing to let the topic come up or be discussed.. it is hard for them to find that help. Just my .02

Sad indeed! I also know of a Scuba Suicide and have had a buddy tell me if they had a major health problem they would take a "one way Dive".

I agree... the "suicide speculation" is as valid as any other here. Some of us are not just trying to figure out why THIS event happened but to learn from every aspect and tangent the topic takes us on! This forum and thread is about learning and I appreciate that I can learn from every single post!

 

[Thalassamania]

What is not conjecture is that a Instructor was hired to serve as a dive buddy for an elderly woman and surfaced without her buddy. It really does not matter what the other details are, they are merely interesting sidelights. I am amazed, however, at how many rather bizarre conjectures people are willing to swallow rather than facing the obvious conclusion in the face, the Instructor screwed the pooch.

 

[jaxjags64109]

What is not conjecture is that a Instructor was hired to serve as a dive buddy for an elderly woman and surfaced without her buddy. It really does not matter what the other details are, they are merely interesting sidelights. I am amazed, however, at how many rather bizarre conjectures people are willing to swallow rather than facing the obvious conclusion in the face, the Instructor screwed the pooch.

So in other words, we may all post our own speculations but only if, and as long as, we first agree with your opinion that "the DM screwed the Pooch?" It appears the rules of the game are finally clear.

 

[InTheDrink]

What is not conjecture is that a Instructor was hired to serve as a dive buddy for an elderly woman and surfaced without her buddy. It really does not matter what the other details are, they are merely interesting sidelights. I am amazed, however, at how many rather bizarre conjectures people are willing to swallow rather than facing the obvious conclusion in the face, the Instructor screwed the pooch.

Sorry Thal, wasn't going to post, but you need to be called on this. You need to drop your macho crap. You don't really seem open to anyone's opinion other than your own. That's a bit sad. You are using adjectives to suit your argument. You are positioning it to suit yourself.

The instructor may have screwed up. Maybe. Held against your notional standards. She equally may not have screwed up at all, against yours or anyone elses standards. To make the black/white assumption that any instructor that doesn't surface with their charge is incompetent is both foolish and insensitive. The other parts are not just 'interesing sidelights' whatever they may be. The detail is the story, not the general points. Grey is where life exists, not in the broad black and white strokes some people wish they were.

I know before I hit 'post' what your response is going to be but why don't you take some time out and try to understand that not everyone is perfect like you?

In all respect.

J