Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[redacted]

If she had been diving a month or so earlier and had her first stroke-related incident during the dive, how would that have changed the DM's responsibility to make a successful rescue?

I hired a private DM once. I knew him from previous trips and the OP did not have him diving that day. So I hired him for myself and my wife. It separated us from the rest of the group and gave us a good set of eyes to find things. I had no other expectation.

Was this DM involved in this incident hired to insure the safety of Mrs. Woods? If so, she did not do a very good job. But if the DM was hired to be Mrs. Woods buddy then that might be a bit different.

 

[mrlipis]

But if the DM was hired to be Mrs. Woods buddy then that might be a bit different.

Actually no it isn't different, she did not do a good job as a buddy either.

While we still do not know who's decision it was to have a personal DM for Ms. Woods, let's assume it was the decision of the Woods'. As a DM I would want to know why? If the DM was hired to "protect" the diver, than they had no business on that dive plan. As a DM, if I have a diver who doesn't have the confidence to dive without me, we are diving a hard bottom with a maximum of 60 ft. period.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Common sense answer? Maybe in your limited world. But some of use take the time to get trained in more advance diving, practise the skills that will keep us alive and make responsible choices as to when and how we dive at these "more challenging sites".

We do not need or want any more regulations because of the poor decisions of others. Be careful what you ask for or you might wake up someday to find that you have a dive site approval system run by the same government that is responsible for the terrible Canadian Health Care system.

John

Interesting reaction John. I'm not sure how you were impacted by the terrible Canadian Health Care System but it has done pretty well for me and my family

I take it from you post that you do what you consider dangerous and high risk diving. With that in mind I am curious to know how often you have dive medicals done? What would trigger you to have a medical? Do you know if professional divers are required to have regular medicals and if so how often?

Our discussion of dive medical was exploring the concept of what if any factors should require a current (by current I would say yearly) medical clearance. When I think of dangerous sites... I think of Deep (will required significant 60min+ in water deco) penetration (would be impractical/impossible for other divers to safely effect a rescue). I would suggest any person conducting these types of dives should be responsible enough to have the appropriate certification, equipment and current medical anyway.

If you had a stroke, do you think the doctor would just come out and tell you not to dive? Maybe she was even told to swim for light exercise as part of rehab, or maybe the subject never came up. Swimming is supposed to be great exercise after a stroke.

If she had been diving a month or so earlier and had her first stroke-related incident during the dive, how would that have changed the DM's responsibility to make a successful rescue?

Excellent points, as stated earlier if the Woods were not adequately educated on what type of activity was appropriate there was a communication break down. That contributed to this sad chain of events and the outcome.

If the diver had her first stroke on the dive... that is a sad but unavoidable situation. Getting into the water with that known history is putting yourself and the DM into avoidable danger.

Had the DM known the history... would she have known enough to decline the job? a least she would have had that option

 

[danclem]

Hi BSEE65:

You asked four questions a bit earlier, and here are my responses.

First, we have heard both that the DM was hired to work with multiple people, and that she was hired specifically to buddy with Mrs. Wood. Can you clarify this at all?

No. I don't know what the arrangement was. There were, as you point out below, three individuals traveling/diving together: Mr and Mrs Wood and their friend from San Francisco.
​

Second, we have heard that Mr. Wood was diving with a friend as his buddy. This hasn't been refuted thus far. We have also heard that the dive split up with Mrs. Wood and her DM buddy, as well as one other couple, lagging behind and separated from the dive leader and your group. Can you confirm that Mr. Wood and his buddy were with you and the dive leader during this incident?

Once again, I don't know how this group and the DM were paired up. I did not see Mr Wood with the lead DM while we were diving. There was no sign to abort the dive and resurface, which I believe would have occurred if the DM's knew there was a buddy separation/missing diver event. I am also using the term DM, but I do not know the certification levels for the leader and "sweep."

After making sure my "insta-buddy" was on the reference line for his 3 minute stop, I descended back to the reef and to check out some corals for a future photo dive. There were several divers exploring the area below the boat. I surfaced with the last divers, and by that time Mr Wood had already boarded, removed his gear, re-entered the water, and was a hundred yards or so from the boat. Their friend was on board, so my impression was that they surfaced before the main group of divers, but I don't know this to be factually correct.
​

Third, there has been discussion about the circumstances of the hiring of the private DM. Do you have knowledge of whether the DM was hired by choice, or required by the dive shop? In either case, did you learn what the reason was for the private DM to be hired?

No knowledge of the DM arrangement.
​

Finally, was Mrs. Wood 50-ish or 68? We've heard both and 68 seems more likely bsed upon the retirement, but I don't believe this was ever settled.

Mrs Wood was 68. As I mentioned in an earlier post, she appeared quite fit, was not over-weight, and if I had to guess her age I would have been at least ten years too young.
​

Hope this helps a bit.

Dan

 

[jackleedy]

I agree that the first tradgic mistake was to dive in the first place. We are responsible for our own actions. What if they had decided on a skydiving vacation?
As with any risky recreation; mountain climbing, skydiving, scuba, skiing, etc., there are risky, hence the name. You have to be accountable for your gear, health and conditions of activity. I would not go mountain climbing with a bumb hand in the middle of winter with a possible storm on the way. There are things that the DM could have done to help facilitate a rescue, but until we know that side it, it is hard to say. Bottom line it was an accident not a malicious act.

 

[garrett58]

Common sense answer? Maybe in your limited world. But some of use take the time to get trained in more advance diving, practise the skills that will keep us alive and make responsible choices as to when and how we dive at these "more challenging sites".

We do not need or want any more regulations because of the poor decisions of others. Be careful what you ask for or you might wake up someday to find that you have a dive site approval system run by the same government that is responsible for the terrible Canadian Health Care system.

John

i see by your profile that you live in pa how would you know anything about the canadian health care system other than what you hear on fox news. but i agree that we dont need any more regulation on scuba

 

[mrlipis]

i see by your profile that you live in pa how would you know anything about the canadian health care system other than what you hear on fox news. but i agree that we dont need any more regulation on scuba

I always find the hypocrisy in people who want to rip Fox news. They have been brainwashed by the 95% liberal media, have never watched the channel and the only thing they know about it, is what they heard on Letterman or read in the L.A. times.
I see from your profile, you are from California. What a great model for our country.
Find me one person who has gone north for medical treatment and I will find you a hundred who have come south.

 

[Robert Brauser]

A tragedy indeed. I have been diving with Stuarts for over 10 years and had my son on a Shark dive when he was 13. I dove with them recently with another young family member on a Shark dive and think highly of their operation and competency. A great deal of the outcome of a dive is in the control of the diver. Make mistakes and a rapid demise may await. Diving has many pitfalls and the list of statistics remains an open book.

Training is key. Self reliance is ultimately essential. Learning from mistakes allows the diver to become a better diver. It is sad that this lost soul will not have the opportunity to learn from whatever the error was that cascaded into a tragic end.

I am fortunate to have been lucky enough to learn from mistakes that could have resulted in similar tragedy. A qualified buddy or better is a good thing to have, as mine was able to save me from an uncontrolled descent to 176' plagued by the consuming effects of nitrogen narcosis grossly narrowing my ability to rescue myself.

I only wish she could thank that person who may have saved her Life as I was able to say to mine.

 

[Cave Diver]

I am fortunate to have been lucky enough to learn from mistakes that could have resulted in similar tragedy. A qualified buddy or better is a good thing to have, as mine was able to save me from an uncontrolled descent to 176' plagued by the consuming effects of nitrogen narcosis grossly narrowing my ability to rescue myself.

I only wish she could thank that person who may have saved her Life as I was able to say to mine.

Sounds like an interesting story. Perhaps you'd consider posting it in the near misses and lessons learned section and maybe your rescuer can save someone else as well.

 

[shoredivr]

We do not need or want any more regulations because of the poor decisions of others. Be careful what you ask for or you might wake up someday to find that you have a dive site approval system run by the same government that is responsible for the terrible Canadian Health Care system.
John

I see I should have bolded the following in BOP's quote:

Dive Ops already mandate medicals for courses. I don't see it any different mandating medicals for particularly risky or dangerous sites but not the average recreational diving sites. That would be costly, hard to enforce and prone to claims of discrimination.

In Quebec there is already government meddling with diving; the government organization that is doing the meddling is FQAS. Fédération Québécoise des Activités Subaquatiques (Last time I checked, there is no english translation.)

In this thread you'll see that I'm not in favour of the FQAS approach at all:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3893356

In Quebec, we do have this kind of control due to the constantly harsh cold conditions in the St-Lawrence... […]So, if you want to dive anywhere in the province and if you want to rent gear or buy air, you need both your c-card and your FQAS card, which is only good for 3 years. When it expires, you need to go to a FQAS-approved instructor (or directly the FQAS office) and prove that you meet one of the following:

1- 10 dives in the last 3 years in conditions that meets those in Quebec
2- Took a refresher course AND did a supervised dive with an instructor
3- Passed a certification
[....]

What really happens NorthO, is this:

The Ontario part of the St. Lawrence River around Brockville and Rockport becomes part of the annual stampede of Quebecois/e divers who don't want to put up with the FQAS nonsense...

The reason I said cash grab is because you have to pay for the FQAS card even if you fit #1 of NorthO's listed FQAS requirements (have 10 dives in last 3 years in conditions like Quebec diving).

In this thread dated 2004, the price for getting your yearly FQAS card is $17. I'm sure it's more now.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ontario-fresh-water-freaks/68602-viz-morrisons-quarry-2.html

Here's two people's experiences with an FQAS "dive inspector" at that same quarry in August, 2008.

Ontario Diving


To the OP: while there are many ways of encouraging divers to stay current with their skills, surely the manner and method experienced by the two people in the OD posts is not a good example.

And how exactly are the dive inspectors going to police the max 60 ft for open water divers, anyway?

As an aside, I have no personal complaints with our health care system, it has been there when I needed it, and I have not had to mortgage my house to get it. To each their own.