Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[mjacobydc]

I hope that we don't loss sight of the fact that Mrs. Wood had made the decision to dive. No one else forced this on her. Its easier to blame someone else for our mistakes than suck it up and take responsibility for it. She made a mistake by getting in the water in the first place knowing she was 1 month post stroke. I am not quite clear on what her husband was thinking agreeing to dive. I don't know enough to comment on the DM's performance. Sure it was a chain of events but they started with Mrs. Wood.

 

[shoredivr]

Dive Ops already mandate medicals for courses. I don't see it any different mandating medicals for particularly risky or dangerous sites but not the average recreational diving sites. That would be costly, hard to enforce and prone to claims of discrimination.

Thank you for the common sense answer.

 

[tridacna]

To answer that question, look at this: 8 seconds into the video the computer shows a depth of 71' and 24 minutes no stop time. The rest of the dive goes like this:

Time...Depth...No Stop Time
0:08.......71........24........2370 psi
1:19.......111.......5........ 2045 psi
1:41.......113.......5.........2145 psi
1:52.......128.......0
2:34.......141.......4........16?? psi
2:54.......144.......5........1640 psi

Interesting that there is more no stop time at 144' than there was at 128'. I think this was either multiple dives spliced together, or a bounce dive was done and the shots were put together out of sequence. PSI at 111' seems to support this.

Also, one minute into the video it shows another diver video taping their console...

I too suspect that the video is a fake. Just too many convenient shots of his computer. Who the ******* shoots video of their computer underwater...every 30 secs? BUT: Be aware that the Oceanic Proplus 2 does not only show Deco time. It's a PITA. It shows either ATR (Air Time Remaining at that depth) or Deco. You have no control. It simply shows the most conservative amount. So you have no way of knowing what that computer is displaying in the video. And therefore your tables may be wrong. Oceanic give you no control over that at all.

 

[Cave Diver]

I too suspect that the video is a fake. Just too many convenient shots of his computer. Who the ******* shoots video of their computer underwater...every 30 secs? BUT: Be aware that the Oceanic Proplus 2 does not only show Deco time. It's a PITA. It shows either ATR (Air Time Remaining at that depth) or Deco. You have no control. It simply shows the most conservative amount. So you have no way of knowing what that computer is displaying in the video. And therefore your tables may be wrong. Oceanic give you no control over that at all.

The videographer has joined the board and the discussion and answered questions about the discrepencies of the video.

Take a look at this post: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4491006-post575.html

 

[ItsBruce]

I understand your sentiments but wonder where one draws the line? How much should dive pro's know about medical conditions that have an impact on diving and then, even if they did identify what may be a symptom of something, should that be the grounds to disallow [-]them[/-] clients to dive or should they refer [-]them[/-] the client(s) to the dive doctor? I don't mean to to take an opposing stance, I understand where you are coming from.
Richard

A very astute comment.

I remember reading about a lawsuit where an injured motorcycle rider was alleging the motorcycle maker was negligent in not making a safer motorcycle. The judge said something to the effect that people ride motorcycles because they are open, quick, responsive, etc., and that to make them as safe as cars would require them to become cars and that the plaintiff should forget it.

In California we have a legal doctrine relative to recreational activities and injuries that occur during those. It basically recognizes that certain activities are inherently risky and that this is a part of the "game." The law does not require the "rules of the game" to be changed to avoid risk.

How true it is of diving. To eliminate all risk, visit the underwater world only in a submarine. To eliminate most risk, dive only in a pool.

I do not think DMs or Instructors should be required to have medical degrees nor should dive boats have MRI machines, etc. Would it be nice? Sure. Practical? No.

If the cost of diving goes up because of requirements put on operators, divers will find alternatives, such as beach dives, where there will be no DMs, etc.

 

[ItsBruce]

Here is a question; Should (could) dive operators mandate a (recent) medical clearance certificate for all divers over a certain age? If so what age would be considered non-discriminatory but reasonable with respect to elevated risk?

Best Regards
Richard

In a perfect world. In our world, there is no non-discriminatory age. Even if it was 100 years, a 101 year old would find a lawyer and sue for discrimination. (Actually, the lawyer would find a 101 year old who wanted to dive, and would sue, but that is besides the point.)

So, if dive ops required everyone to have medical clearances, how many people would get them from legitimate sources? Recall that many prescription drugs can be bought on the internet using prescriptions obtained on the internet.

And, at what point would it simply be easier for divers to dive from the beach than from a boat?

 

[jkaterenchuk]

Thank you for the common sense answer.

Common sense answer? Maybe in your limited world. But some of use take the time to get trained in more advance diving, practise the skills that will keep us alive and make responsible choices as to when and how we dive at these "more challenging sites".

We do not need or want any more regulations because of the poor decisions of others. Be careful what you ask for or you might wake up someday to find that you have a dive site approval system run by the same government that is responsible for the terrible Canadian Health Care system.

John

 

[carrielsal]

I have a friend that knew Mrs. Wood. Reportedly, she had a mild stroke last month. If she were predisposed to this, a stroke at depth might explain her inability or unwillingness to comply with the DM's instruction to ascend, which turned to combativeness and anger. Not to mention the possible interactions of narcosis with the medication she was likely on due to a recent stroke.

This thread has fascinated me for a couple of days now. It has really gotten me thinking what I would do as a DM.
If this post is correct and the woman had had a stroke the previous month, had she talked to her doctor prior to this trip to find out the medical risk and any medication interactions? I am not a doctor, but I would be willing to bet a doc would say NO to diving so soon after a stroke.
Divers must take individual responsibility. I think that this woman diving exhibited reckless behavior with no regard to her own safely.

 

[bsee65]

If you had a stroke, do you think the doctor would just come out and tell you not to dive? Maybe she was even told to swim for light exercise as part of rehab, or maybe the subject never came up. Swimming is supposed to be great exercise after a stroke.

We just don't know the severity of her previous incident or if another incident occurred during this dive. I can appreciate that such an incident might have made her less compliant to the DM's instructions. I can appreciate that there's a good chance that she had a medical condition that should have prohibited diving. I can also appreciate that she should have been brought to the surface where she might have been treated for anything that went wrong and still be alive today.

If she had been diving a month or so earlier and had her first stroke-related incident during the dive, how would that have changed the DM's responsibility to make a successful rescue?

 

[alohagal]

This thread has fascinated me for a couple of days now. It has really gotten me thinking what I would do as a DM.
If this post is correct and the woman had had a stroke the previous month, had she talked to her doctor prior to this trip to find out the medical risk and any medication interactions? I am not a doctor, but I would be willing to bet a doc would say NO to diving so soon after a stroke.
Divers must take individual responsibility. I think that this woman diving exhibited reckless behavior with no regard to her own safely.

Yes and No. She had a TIA the month prior. Transient Ischemic Attack. Which is medical jargon for a mini-stroke. It is often a precursor for bigger things to come. That isn't always the case, however. But, I would bet that not too many Neurologists would give the okay for diving...so soon after a TIA, . But, for some patients it could be years before a larger stroke occurs, if at all. Treatment for TIA and stroke if you survive is preventing another stroke from occurring. I don't see how diving would ever be something that person could do again. Who is to know what kind of care she was under, and did she inform her Doctor that she was a diver and wanted to continue diving? Maybe not.

For a stroke to be classified a TIA all neurological deficits must be completely clear within 24 hours, leaving NO residual dysfunction. Most TIA's resolve within 3 hours. However, they are a warning sign of progressive cerebrovascular disease. Did this patient think she dodged a bullet? Since she had no residual after effects she was likely in denial that she would have any further complications. Denial is a big factor in peoples viewpoint of their health. She sounds like an active 68 year old who did not want to give up her activities, such as diving. She had indeed dodged a bullet. Nothing felt different to her physically, if it was a true TIA. She may have been in just enough denial to think...well if I have my husband and a DM with me I will be okay. (I was told through a PM by someone on the dive, that yes, the husband, DM and Ms. Woods were all diving together). It was a fateful error on her part. She dove, she dove deep, she was under atmospheric pressure and the bullet fired sooner rather than later. IMHO