Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[Web Monkey]

And then get sued by the victim's family if she dies from a lung over-expansion injury on her rapid trip to the surface, or get sued by the victim and/or family if she survived but ended up crippled from DCS.

I'm Not a Lawyer, but I don't believe there's any way to get sued and lose for following training while attempting to prevent the death of a diver who is acting irrationally and in imminent danger. And by definition, a new OW diver @ 140' is both.

Weight ditching is a last resort used to put someone on the surface when nothing else works. It's not guaranteed safe, but is probably better than dead.

If you're talking about "me", I would have grabbed the tank valve from behind and given a demonstration of exactly why I wear a BC with 75 pounds of lift when working with people I might have to haul out of the water.

However in this case, the DM apparently didn't feel up to the task or wasn't properly equipped, which is why weight ditching would have been appropriate.

Terry

 

[Dantheengineer]

That would have been a great time to dich the victim's weights, wave goodbye and follow the ascent to the surface.

Terry

From 140'? she may have lived, i guess. If the Vic was fighting off assistance in the mode i'm given to understand then she'd have fought this action too and in the process the two would have just dropped another X number of feet.

I dare say i'll hear about breathing mixes and will forward accordingly.

Cavediver, that was my first question. I believe the situation came to escalate after instructor 3. allowed sufficient respect to Mrs Wood to perform her own dive then tried to bring her back into line when she was seen to be pushing the limits. If 3. had two charges, as is understood (Mr & Mrs wood), this would explain why she was called up first before 3. descended to "hands on" her up.
Given the huge variation in skill, ability and individual style of diver a pro here is faced with, it's not unusual to access the skills visually and "go with the flow" of the diver. Most (if not all) clients resent a more complete control, these two were after all not on a resort dive.
That, coupled with the fact that in crystal clear water 20' isnt that greater distance unless it's suddenly a head start for a race...............

The procurement for a private DM, is also said to be at the very last minute. To the extent that the boat was unable to leave until Mrs Wood returned from the dive shop having procured 3. as a private DM.
With the benefit of hind sight one would surly have suggested a refresher course that would have been performed at a "bottomed" site rather than placing the responsibility upon a DM, the moral perhaps is that the Customer isn't always right.........

Again i'd reiterate that the "facts" i write related to this specific incident are not and in no way first hand, rather the communal understanding of events by those not even necessarily directly involved. I, like most of us i'm sure, await onlyhalcyon's input as the most belief worthy source of detail.

 

[Dantheengineer]

Now, you see, to me this report appears "padded" - I talk from over 30 years in the commercial dive business where I have seen my fair share of "incidents", and honestly, I have a few issues with some of the comments which seem to me, highly unlikely responses from a diver suffering from narcosis.

Nowhere in any post do we read the diver was struggeling or under extreme stress, actually from all reports I read here nowhere is it reported she was in any way out of control, (this is easy to see in any diver) hense we can assume narcosis is certainly a factor.

Now, in my opinion, a diver suffering high levels of stress will / may fight off assistance, however not a diver suffering only the effects of narcosis - hense if we assume the diver was suffering narcosis I think its highly unlikely they would (a) physically push assistance away (b) have the presence of mind to vent the BC continually - this "venting" is in my opinion not a normal reaction for any diver, certainly not one suffering from narcosis or even stress.

The part about body language and continual venting etc, - well, I have to ask, what was the aggressive body language? - a diver suffering narcosis is very unlikely to exhibit aggression - again its not a natural reaction - a diver stressed beyond control yes, but then they would not have full control of the equipment (continued venting) as she appeared to have.

I think the rest of the report makes sense.

Please, Dantheengineer, understand, I mean no offence, the patrs I outline simply dont gel in my water logged brain, I assume you just recalled it as you heard it, thats fine and I appreciate it, however in my humble opinion the story is getting somewhat embellished as it gos along.

You are absolutely correct. As stated it's my own interpretation of events described to me by no more than dockside hearsay. I've tried to stick to the facts as recounted but i'm no policeman by any means. If it's any consolation at all there's allot more people at this end trying to make sense of and learn from this tragic incident. As i also allude, many involved are members here and although feel unable to post, may well answer specific questions if asked. However indirectly......

In the mean time i'll pad less............

 

[Cave Diver]

I'm Not a Lawyer, but I don't believe there's any way to get sued and lose for following training while attempting to prevent the death of a diver who is acting irrationally and in imminent danger. And by definition, a new OW diver @ 140' is both.

I'm not a lawyer either, but there are a lot of lawsuits I don't believe that could be lost, but the juries disagreed.

 

[stevejaz]

From 140'? she may have lived, i guess. If the Vic was fighting off assistance in the mode i'm given to understand then she'd have fought this action too and in the process the two would have just dropped another X number of feet.

I dare say i'll hear about breathing mixes and will forward accordingly.

Cavediver, that was my first question. I believe the situation came to escalate after instructor 3. allowed sufficient respect to Mrs Wood to perform her own dive then tried to bring her back into line when she was seen to be pushing the limits. If 3. had two charges, as is understood (Mr & Mrs wood), this would explain why she was called up first before 3. descended to "hands on" her up.
Given the huge variation in skill, ability and individual style of diver a pro here is faced with, it's not unusual to access the skills visually and "go with the flow" of the diver. Most (if not all) clients resent a more complete control, these two were after all not on a resort dive.
That, coupled with the fact that in crystal clear water 20' isnt that greater distance unless it's suddenly a head start for a race...............

The procurement for a private DM, is also said to be at the very last minute. To the extent that the boat was unable to leave until Mrs Wood returned from the dive shop having procured 3. as a private DM.
With the benefit of hind sight one would surly have suggested a refresher course that would have been performed at a "bottomed" site rather than placing the responsibility upon a DM, the moral perhaps is that the Customer isn't always right.........

Again i'd reiterate that the "facts" i write related to this specific incident are not and in no way first hand, rather the communal understanding of events by those not even necessarily directly involved. I, like most of us i'm sure, await onlyhalcyon's input as the most belief worthy source of detail.

All due respect...but

I'd say this is definitely a bit biased as you are obviously close with this outfit and the people who work there.

First, if this was a last minute procurment of the DM before the boat could leave, I'm guessing thats because when everyone was being signed in on that boat she was discovered to have not dived for more than 3 years and should have had a refresher. I say this because when I was there, the DM on our boat (short fiesty gal whom I can't remember her name) asked this of a diver and when she discovered he hadn't dove in 3 years, kicked him off for the refresher in the pool. He was then ferried out to join the group on the second dive.

Second, at this dive site, they don't moor that close to the wall, getting there is no accident and this was the first dive. So even if they were doing an impromptu refresher, it shouldn't have been on the edge of a 6000' wall with a 20' seperation.

So while I'm not criticizing anyone, this operation is not the holier than though operation you're painting it to be. They have both good and bad DM's/personel as I've experienced personally. They also see all types as you have mentioned, but this is no excuse, it's just part of doing business with the general public.

So again, I'm not criticizing you and value your posts, but I do think they are a bit biased as are mine due to previous experience no matter how unbiased I try to make them.

P.S. I sure hope Mr. Wood (or family members) doesn't read this given some of the speculation of the unmentionable.

Steve

 

[Thalassamania]

You're free to keep blaming the operation (you're rather good at it) but if it was my intent to harm myself by going over that wall into the abyss, I'm pretty sure there's no single person who would be able stop me.

There's no evidence or indication of any such thing in this case, however as far as your braggadocio concerning your ability to commit suicide in the face of even the most effective leadership personnel on the planet ... I suspect that you are wrong, perhaps we could give it a try?

 

[Cave Diver]

There's no evidence or indication of any such thing in this case, however as far as your braggadocio concerning your ability to commit suicide in the face of even the most effective leadership personnel on the planet ... I suspect that you are wrong, perhaps we could give it a try?

Looks like a post that belongs in the ScubaBoard challenge section.

 

[Riger]

..... however as far as your braggadocio concerning your ability to commit suicide in the face of even the most effective leadership personnel on the planet ... I suspect that you are wrong, perhaps we could give it a try?

Touché

Best Regards
Richard

 

[Thalassamania]

My first question would center on how someone in the care of a private DM ended up 20' below her to begin with.

I have the same thought..

I thought about that too. I have never been tasked as an underwater caretaker, my question to the professionals; "Is it unreasonable that a DM caring for a diver looks away from their charge long enough (say 30 seconds?) for them to get 7m below you?"

Best Regards
Richard

Yes, it is unreasonable.

 

[Steve50]

There's no evidence or indication of any such thing in this case, however as far as your braggadocio concerning your ability to commit suicide in the face of even the most effective leadership personnel on the planet ... I suspect that you are wrong, perhaps we could give it a try?

suggest using Thal's home field...