Bahamas Diving-Split from Spiegel Accident

[ianr33]

There are no additional remarks / entries regarding diving on air. It even specifically stated that the rectec limits do not apply to diving on air or nitrox. Ie if you dive to 200 feet with air you are covered by DAN europe. If you would do this same dive on 21/35 trimix you would not be covered (ppo² above 1.4 bar)

Regulation at its very finest

 

[Herk_Man]

Enough with the benefit of doubt.

I am willing to wager Bahamas Resort - Andros Island Bahamas Resort Hotel takes divers to 225fsw into caves with singled 80's on air. I also state that they have no interest in the training the divers have when they charge them for this experience.

Good or bad idea... they do it. And I cannot say I disagree

Geez guys. If you don't like it, don't go do it. So far all of the horrible things about this operation have not actually been verified here but we still insist on vilifying a well established long term operation publicly without doing our due diligence?

How about paying them some respect and going off-forum to ask some questions before you pass judgment on them.

And if you still don't like what you hear, feel free to post the facts and not frequent their business. They somehow feel comfortable doing it and have established a long-term safety record. They've assumed the risk or are allowing the customer who wants a unique diving experience to waive it in the name of adventure.

Please don't invite yourself along on my next sky diving/ night flying/ bungee jumping/ wall climbing/ insert your risky activity of choice here - adventure.

Give it a rest water cops!

 

[bsee65]

In my opinion, there are two things about a "follow me" dive that make it very dangerous. One is that inexperienced divers are often well beyond their training and comfort limits on these dives. The other is the disparity between the expectations of divers and DMs with regard to care. Divers, especially the inexperienced ones, expect that DMs will watch them and keep them safe where many DMs feel that their only responsibility is a briefing and guide in the water, if they get in at all. It is the combination of the above two items that leads to a higher accident rate than there should be.

Well, let's look at this dive op. They appear to be taking people to places they have not previously been. They may be taking people significantly deeper than they are trained to go. Divers are probably at the edge or beyond their comfort and training levels. While this will never be 100% safe, maybe their DMs are more attentive and concerned with safety on these dives than pointing out fish? If the DMs act like instructors rather than guides, then these dives are going to be safer than they initially appear. I wonder what the DM-to-diver ratio is on these dives? If it's more like 1-2 than 1-8, that would make a difference as well.

I wouldn't make a habit of following unknown DMs down to triple digit depths, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some operations and dive pros that can run such a dive well. If this dive interests you, then work on your buoyancy skills and do your homework.

I'll tell you one thing with that dive profile, though. You better have clear ears! Drop from 20 to 185 and back up to "reasonable" depths in five minutes including a minute stop at 185? Good luck slowing to equalize before you pop an eardrum if you have an issue.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I wonder what the DM-to-diver ratio is on these dives? If it's more like 1-2 than 1-8, that would make a difference as well.

Their web site lists many of these special dives and explicitly states that many of these dives only permit one or two clients. This suggests that they do have an extremely low client to guide ratio on certain dives.

 

[bsee65]

Their web site lists many of these special dives and explicitly states that many of these dives only permit one or two clients. This suggests that they do have an extremely low client to guide ratio on certain dives.

That would certainly be a check mark in their favor, then.

 

[Dr Wu]

I think they do screen who they do and do not allow on those dives, they seemed to know all of the people who did the dive, and all them had done it before and knew what they were getting into.

So they let you do the dive only if you have done it before?

The logistics confound..

 

[idocsteve]

So they let you do the dive only if you have done it before?

Yes but there's a first time for everything.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Charlie59, are you out there? Did you see this thread back in the day?

Hi all,

I can answer some of the questions about our diving, but I don't do the tech diving so I'll have to get someone else to answer the technical questions.

Our Over the Wall dive has been one of our signature dives for 50 years. We descend over the Tongue of the Ocean and sit on a ledge at 185 feet. From the time we leave 20 ft until the time we have to LEAVE 185 and start ascending we have 5 minutes. The rest of the dive is spent at 55 or so. The total dive time is 18 minutes and when time correctly, is a no deco dive. It's led by a team of divemasters and we control time and depth. Like I said in the Spiegel thread, I've been doing this dive for two years and have never had an OOG situation.

As far as Church Windows (225ft) and some of the inland blue holes, they do dive on AL80s but they carry extra gas and have stage bottles.

The deeper dives and cave dives are done on a case by case basis after spending time with divers to evaluate their skills.

Whoever recommended Brian Kakuk for caving was right on. He's a friend of Small Hope's and dives our caves here. We've got an awesome cave survey that he did of one of our Blue Holes on the wall in the Lodge.

If you're a diver that like to stay within recreational limits, we've got plenty of great dives for that too! Over 60 dive sites within 15 minutes and only a few are below recreational limits.

It is always interesting to see the posts on SB. I do understand the concern that some have about diving below the rec limits and I do not advocate making it a habit, however, I do think that many people do dive below the limits (drop dives of less than 3 minutes below 150 feet). I was only trying to gauge how often people ventured out of their comfort zone and went deep on air.

The issue that I have with not exploring or discussing diving deeper is that people are afraid to dive to 130 feet, and in an emergency would be afraid to go deeper. From what I have read on the "internets", diving air to 165 feet on air is reasonable with the right education and a trained individual. The French have levels of diving that sets a limit on diving of 165 feet on air. The world's record on air is in excess of 450 ft, but that is crazy.

While I am in favor of having respect for the dangers of deep diving, I am not a fan of fear in diving. In the past I would feel anxious about my diving to 130 ft, now I think that anxiety will be much less since I have seen what it is like below that level. I again would not promote the activity but suspect that there are many divers who dive down to 200 ft on air and not infrequently.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The bladder on this thread's "BC" seams to be leaking, but luckily the "tank" is pretty full...

Cave Diver's "Stealth Title" on this split-off thread is very, ah, stealthy...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As one of the "Peter Pan's" of diving, divebunny13's SB story is very sad to me. Her first post was very similar to my first scuba forum post; expressing the desire to "go pro", and muddiver gave Amanda a very warm welcome.

Hi divers!

My name is Amanda and I am from Oceanside, CA. I have been certified for two years but I haven't gotten wet in about a year. (Tip: Never leave gear behind when leaving a relationship. You'll never get it back.) My BF just got his OW cert and he is as hooked as I am.

We are planning on doing a dive internship somewhere in the world (probably Thailand) and would love to become ex-pat dive instructors, taking us wherever our fins can get us.

Out of the water, we like to relax, drink frosty brews, and we are both surfers. So if we aren't under the water, we'll be on top, distracting the sharks.

I look forward to making some new friends and dive buddies. Let's get wet!

Party on! Sister. Good luck with the dive career thing.

Just 5 posts after the day Amanda posted to this thread she made her last post on SB. 25 days after her post in this thread, Amanda quit sharing with us and she last logged on to SB just 25 days after that last post. It's been over 19 months now; imagine what she could have shared with us if she had felt welcome enough to stay?