Bad tank alloy

[Scared Silly]

While I may not agree with the no AL cylinders before 1990 I can understand it. Sure I would like to see it fine tuned a bit but fine we can agree to disagree on it. That said let me ask two related questions. First, we also hear no cylinders over 20 yeas old (I have only seen the no pre 1990 cylinders). So is the date going to change to 1991 next year? Second, what is rational behind extending the no fill rule to steel cylinders? It is pretty easy to tell a steel from an AL even if the marking are hard to read.

What I see the problem being is the dive ops setting what would be called arbitrary and capricious rules. Which in the end give the dive ops a bad name.


BTW from what I have always been told for the most part a compressor whether personally owned or professional owned is a loss leader. However, when personally owned it is for connivence. But for a shop a necessary part of business. However, I am not convinced that it draws that many people in to buy gear. But I have never been on the retail side just the education at a university.

That said I wonder how many people actually buy a new cylinder? I mean if I showed up with my steel cylinder made in the 70s or a Catalina made in 1989 and was told sorry we will not fill it and there was no good reason. Why would I want to give that shop money?

 

[captain]

I bet if you take the initial cost of that compressor, plus the costs of the rebuilds, plus the costs of the filter media (even if you fill your own filters), plus the cost of oil and electricity, you're not ahead anything.

We've done the math. Charging $4 per air fill, we don't break even on filling tanks. It's a means of getting people into the store to buy gear.


*edit* are you doing air quality tests every 3 months? This costs us $200 a year. That $200 alone would equal 50 dives at 4$ per fill.

Why should I do air quality test every 3 months when after 42 years and thousands of fills I have never had bad air.
It cost me $760 when I bought it, thats a cost of $18 a year over 42 years. At most it cost me about $60 a year to do the compressors oil changes and filter change. A gallon of $2.50 gas will fill 4 tanks.
Using those numbers if I fill 100 tanks a year it cost me $1.40 a tank. If I only fill 22 tanks a year it still is only $4 a tank. 22 tanks is a weekend trip for me and two buddies. The longer I own it and the more tanks I fill the cheaper it gets.
It's been rebuilt twice in 42 years and I did the rebuilds.

Plus you have to factor $'s saved in the time, inconvenience and expense of hauling tanks X number of miles too and from some LDS. Suppose I want to spend a week diving a spot 100 miles from an LDS or stay at sea for a week, no problem, just bring the compressor

If you never had and ran a personal compressor trying to compare it to a shop size compressor is just foolish. It's in the shop interest to convince divers that owning a compressor is not justifiable but owing a $1200 titanium regulator is.

 

[Superlyte27]

While I may not agree with the no AL cylinders before 1990 I can understand it. Sure I would like to see it fine tuned a bit but fine we can agree to disagree on it. That said let me ask two related questions. First, we also hear no cylinders over 20 yeas old (I have only seen the no pre 1990 cylinders). So is the date going to change to 1991 next year? Second, what is rational behind extending the no fill rule to steel cylinders? It is pretty easy to tell a steel from an AL even if the marking are hard to read.

What I see the problem being is the dive ops setting what would be called arbitrary and capricious rules. Which in the end give the dive ops a bad name.


BTW from what I have always been told for the most part a compressor whether personally owned or professional owned is a loss leader. However, when personally owned it is for connivence. But for a shop a necessary part of business. However, I am not convinced that it draws that many people in to buy gear. But I have never been on the retail side just the education at a university.

That said I wonder how many people actually buy a new cylinder? I mean if I showed up with my steel cylinder made in the 70s or a Catalina made in 1989 and was told sorry we will not fill it and there was no good reason. Why would I want to give that shop money?

We don't have a 20 year rule. We'll fill Steel tanks that have passed hydro's and VIP. Honestly guys, I think his ruling it one out of fear. His very good friend had an employee die when filling one of these tanks. If you are in cave country, most likely you know the story and who I am speaking about.

It's very rare that someone gets angry when we won't fill their tank. And we are not pushing new tanks on them. I'd guess that you guys know there's about a 15% or less markup on aluminum tanks.

 

[Superlyte27]

Why should I do air quality test every 3 months when after 42 years and thousands of fills I have never had bad air. At most it cost me about $60 a year to maintain the compressors oil changes and filter change. A gallon of $2.50 gas will fill 4 tanks.
It's been rebuilt twice in 42 years and I did the rebuilds.

Plus you have to factor $'s saved in the time, inconvenience and expense of hauling tanks X number of miles too and from some LDS. Suppose I want to spend a week diving a spot 100 miles from an LDS or stay at sea for a week, no problem, just bring the compressor

If you never had and ran a personal compressor trying to compare it to a shop size compressor is just foolish. It's in the shop interest to convince divers that owning a compressor is not justifiable.

Well, quite honestly, I don't know much about personal size compressors. I have a few friends that have their own compressors and quite honestly, their just as big or bigger than ours. One guy has like a 18CFM Bauer and another guy as a 21 Mako. These suck up every bit of savings you might hope to have.

As far as air quality, it's not how the past has treated you, but rather how the present might treat you.

I can completely understand the "convenience factor". I think you got our shop wrong. We're about the farthest thing from pushy as it gets. I truly believe it's the only reason we've survived when more than a dozen other shops have failed in this area. Our owner likes to provide all the information as he interprets it, and let the customer decide. We're not a power house seller by any stretch. He is not making a fortune and has never tried to. He teaches alot of classes and sells little gear, but he does it because he loves Scuba.

 

[Superlyte27]

We got no titanium regulators.

Right now we are pitching Oceanic's opening line.

It's a basic bc, a very good regulator/octo, a console with computer and compass for $800.00

That's pretty sweet I think. It gets people into a great set of dive gear for less. That means more people get to dive.

The thing that pisses me off more than anything in Diving is that it's a rich man's sport. It's such a great life to participate in, I really believe EVERYONE should be able to do it.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

How that's compressor working out for you. By now you are figuring out that it costs more to operate and maintain a compressor than what you save by filling your own tanks. That to me is hilarious to me.

It's working out fine and has for the last 5 years. I have passed the break even point already but what you fail to grasp is that money has nothing to do with it - it's about convenience and not having to work with idiots.

Consider the other side of the coin. Someone who can drop a couple grand on a compressor and not blink would have made a great customer for the LDS that pissed him off.

I'm merely a pawn obeying orders.

You might want to explore the historical significance of "befehl ist befehl" before you start bragging about just being a pawn and not actually being responsible for what goes on around you. In the end, that kind of ignorance just does not cut it and it makes a piss poor excuse and an even poorer legal defense.

The thing that pisses me off more than anything in Diving is that it's a rich man's sport. It's such a great life to participate in, I really believe EVERYONE should be able to do it.

Apparently, "everyone" does not include the guy with perfectly good pre-1990 6061 AL tanks who has to buy new ones as you won't fill them. That adds at least $150 on top of your $800 bc/reg/console/compass deal, and the irony here is the LDS won't make anything off the tank sale anyway, so it is a lose-lose situation.

 

[captain]

have.

As far as air quality, it's not how the past has treated you, but rather how the present might treat you.

All the test tells you is what the air quality was at the time the sample was taken, it doesn't tell you what it was last week nor what it might be next week.
I know if I do X,Y and Z regularly my air will be good every day.

 

[Scared Silly]

I know if I do X,Y and Z regularly my air will be good every day.

X == bailing wire
Y == duct tape
Z == spit lube

X+Y+Z == good air


Sorry I could not resist, I mean those three items are what keeps everything going whether it is a compressor, boat, car, or some other toy.

 

[captain]

X == bailing wire
Y == duct tape
Z == spit lube

X+Y+Z == good air


Sorry I could not resist, I mean those three items are what keeps everything going whether it is a compressor, boat, car, or some other toy.

All is good

 

[DA Aquamaster]

You forgot velcro and zip ties.