Bad service and safety in Indonesia...

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I always research any potential travel site for any purpose before I go nowadays, but this story sounds like your worst nightmare come true, deceitful dive operator, bad local cops, etc. I'll definitely think "twice" before going there. :no:
 
WOW !!!!!!

If mostly true this really is deeply shocking,done a search but can't find any info of this OP.avoid at all cost this one.

KOMODO a great place and a place to respect and have experienced guides with you.

Some mistakes also made by divers also 60 dive's in no way make you experienced enough to deal with Komodo as a whole and diver and op should be aware of this and dive komodo's more easy sites.

@ similandiver as a fellow OP in the area things like this could be bad news for you and other OP'S i would suggest as you are in a better position than us on here and would would contact this OP with other OP'S in the area
and seek explanation and how damaging this could be to divers wanting to dive in your area
 
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That is a terrifying recount of what can happen if you dive in the third world..........How does this not keep people from diving in 3rd world countries? Scary scary stuff
 
I read that article and I can't help notice that the divers' concerned took no responsibility for their own safety. They should have conducted their own dive planning and management. They relied upon the dive centre to provide basic safety equipment, that they should have owned...and relied upon a dive guide to keep their dives safe, through planning and management of their dive. That isn't a Divemaster's responsibility.

There is a difference between a 'dive guide' and a 'Divemaster'. Divers should understand that difference. One is a certification level - indicative of training and capability to supervise and assist divers. The other is a role, a job...and underwater tour guide. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can understand a complaint that the dive guide had a lack of local knowledge, which was detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the dive, but I don't see that it is fair to apportion blame for lack of safety.

Also, if the dive guide had a hangover, then that is unprofessional. A fair complaint. As for air-consumption - then the divers could have remained in buddy pairs and completed the dive without a guide. That's a small issue. Only if the dive guide demanded that the divers end the dive early is that a legitimate complaint. It isn't mentioned whether that was the policy or not. It doesn't seem that the divers thought to ask what the policy was in advance - which is their error.

The Divemaster did leave them and ascend at some point, so that indicates that there wasn't a policy to ascend as a group. The divers are certified to dive independently, without supervision, so there shouldn't be any safety issues to complain about.

The fact that the divers concerned weren't comfortable in heavy current (without 'supervision') is their own failing. Every agency advocates diving 'within the limits of your training and experience'. They obviously ignored that agency recommendation...and were doing a 'trust me' dive in the assumption that their safety was insured by the presence of a dive guide. Again...their error. If they weren't comfortable with the conditions, they shouldn't have been diving on that site...full stop.

As for the rental kit... why didn't the divers test, fit and inspect that equipment before they got on the boat. That's just common sense. They chose not to ensure their equipment was ideal in advance... and then whine when they're at the dive site and discover these things?

That is a terrifying recount of what can happen if you dive in the third world..........How does this not keep people from [-]diving in 3rd world countries[/-] taking more personal responsibility for their own safety, planning their own dives and applying their training? Scary scary stuff

Edited to reflect the real issue...


 
I aggree on most that Devon Diver says, however, if they where relatively unexperienced (which we do not know) they might have needed a bit more support in making the right choises and maybe the dive sites that was chooses should not have been chooses due to the level of dificulty. Personally I test my BCD (and other equipment that i do not bring myself) and then ask someone if they think it seems to be correct for me, it is one thing how it feels at land and one how it feels in the sea.

Everyone is certified to dive on his own, but some only got their 4 + 4 dives from the OW course and that does not make anyone a good diver! Just a little support in chosing the correct equipment and maybe some other dive site choises and those tourists would have been happy (well at least not raging..). So it is also up to the dive shop to plan according to their customers knowledge and training.
 
I aggree on most that Devon Diver says, however, if they where relatively unexperienced (which we do not know) they might have needed a bit more support in making the right choises and maybe the dive sites that was chooses should not have been chooses due to the level of dificulty. Personally I test my BCD (and other equipment that i do not bring myself) and then ask someone if they think it seems to be correct for me, it is one thing how it feels at land and one how it feels in the sea.

Everyone is certified to dive on his own, but some only got their 4 + 4 dives from the OW course and that does not make anyone a good diver! Just a little support in chosing the correct equipment and maybe some other dive site choises and those tourists would have been happy (well at least not raging..). So it is also up to the dive shop to plan according to their customers knowledge and training.

Sorry but this is the attitude that I have to take offense to (the bold part).

It is not up to the DiveMaster to know if you feel "flowery and springtime" when you look at a dive site or listen to a dive brief. Sure they can see a few things SOMETIMES in your body language, poster, eye movement....

However the only person that can actually FEEL your apprehension is......YOU.

You are the one ultimately responsible for calling the dive, for whatever reason. No one should ever question that or make fun of you for that. However it seems this is the majority of the reason (that I have noticed) that people do trust me dives. They are afraid of getting "bullied" or picked on by the other divers.

Just two weeks ago I was DiveConning an OW 1+2. There was a few Marines in the class and some civilians. All showed up, we did predive brief, walked back to cars and students began to assemble gear. This one Marine (think biggest, strongest, redneckiest (sp?) Machine Gunner you have ever seen in your life) comes up to me and says "I know you were a Doc, can you keep an extra eye on me today?"

This kinda set off alarm bells for me so I asked what the problem was. Long story short he was still getting over a sinus cold and could not equalize on the surface. However he did not want his fellow Marines to see him (expletive deleted) out of the dives.

Needless to say I brought this Marine over to the Instructor and had him talk to the Instructor. Instructor tells him it is ok to thumb a dive whenever for whatever reason. (same stuff everyone is taught in OW academic sessions). Instructor dismisses the Marine after he decides to cal it off and make up the dives later. Instructor then proceeds to rearrange the buddy groups in the class pairing me up with the Marines previous buddy. This gets people to ask questions and one of the Marines asked "what's amadda? Did Cpl. (insert name here) pu---" As soon as that P and U came out of that Marines mouth the Instructor lite him up one side and down the other for a good 5 minutes. "explaining" that it didn't matter if he really did have a piece of sand in his "female parts" that it is his right to call a dive whenever for whatever reason and that if any one had a problem with that they would get REMOVED from the class.

This seemed to drill the point home to everyone about how serious it is that you can call a dive no matter what without fearing reprisals or ribbing. Perhaps this is something more instructors should try and focus one? This is the only time I have really seen it that FORCEFULLY instilled in OW students. I understand this situation wouldnt work every single time, but maybe that is something that instructors should spend more time emphasizing over and over again until the students ear bleed from hearing it so much?

The other point that I feel is probably not stressed enough is to never die beyond YOUR abilities. Something that is taught in the beginning professional levels but not even mentioned prior to that is "you're only as good/fast/safe/whatever as your slowest/newest/most-air-hoggiest-diver." This should be another "make their ears bleed" statement IMO.

That certainly would have solved this couples problems it seems....
 
To hit a female in the face !!!!!!!!
If that was the case then Danny you are a !@#$%^&*. No excuse whatsoever.
 
Sorry but this is the attitude that I have to take offense to (the bold part).

Yes, anyone should anytome be able to abort a dive I aggree to 100%, but if they where taken by their guide to a place that was better suitable for their training they could have gotten a full dive and a much better experience for their money and not having need to abort it, I think this is a even better solution and this is what I meant. Better go to a place where the divers have experience enough to dive than putting them in a situation where they have to abort the dive. They cannot know where it is hard or not to dive if they do not have a good local knowledge, which I guess is one thing that a dive operator that also gives you a guide should be able to provide you with..? They will likely also have a hard time to read the surroundings and the area from the boat before they enter the dive (if they are unexperienced) and some better choises from the operator could make their diving day much better.

I do not say that they should not have enough training not to take care of themself and survive under water nor not to know when to abort a dive. But one cannot ask them to have the knowledge of where it is suitable for them to dive or not on a location they just arrived to, that must be a part of the dive guide / operators job.?

Everything I say is based on that they had a small boat where only the persons writing the article was aboard (or max a few more). Because that is how I read the article. If it was a live aboard, the thing is completly different.

When I was in PH last time, I was buddied up for a shore dive with a guy doing DM training, only us two, because they wanted to see my skills. I really appreciated that they knew what I could do or not and also always buddied up people after their skills in different group going different way on the dive sites. That operator is likely to see me again!
 
you got to be kidding !! just becourse he know some one in the police he can threat people like that and get away with it..
amazing !
 

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