Bad (poor) trim on divers AND turtle? Thoughts?

[ianr33]

Okay, okay...before semantics lead to 12 posts to berate the point...for better of worse, my definition (and that of the folks with whom I routinely dive) of "undeserved" hit is one for which there is no obvious cause. Yes, I'm well aware that the base cause is nitrogen coming out of solution in the blood and tissues. I'm specifying that there was no obvious contributory circumstances that would indicate that the diver should have been in a higher risk category (excessive depth, rapid ascent, see-saw profile, repetitive dives--it was the first dive of the trip--dehydration, etc...). Under my rather limited definition, it was "undeserved".

May not be the case in the instance you describe but the Flower Gardens can be kind of tough. I never sleep on the way out due to the boat motion and engine noise.Some divers spend the entire weekend throwing up. Add in Texas summer heat and some strong currents, its not too surprising there are a few "undeserved" bends.

 

[Blackwood]

No offense Blackwood, but I think a discussion about IWR might fit best in a forum other than Basic Scuba.

I'm not sure I agree that IWR is a more advanced topic than OOWR, but regardless I just ride the thread where she takes me. If anything, multiple 100 foot dives in a day belongs somewhere else. But I think a discussion of potential therapy contingencies is a basic topic.

Oh, and none taken

 

[Dtaine]

I'm not sure I agree that IWR is a more advanced topic than OOWR, but regardless I just ride the thread where she takes me. If anything, multiple 100 foot dives in a day belongs somewhere else. But I think a discussion of potential therapy contingencies is a basic topic.

Oh, and none taken

haha, yea there certainly are a lot of contingencies to be discussed when you're that far out from shore.

 

[Guba]

In the case of the diver being discussed...IWR was not only outside the boat's protocol, it was an impossibility for that trip. Hurricane Dolly was just entering the Gulf, and as a result the Coast Guard could not dispatch aircraft to transport. Naturally, our boat couldn't stay where it was, either.
And ianr33 is telling it straight. Conditions in the FG are most often too iffy for safe IWR. Just getting back on the boat can be extremely challenging.

 

[tgsmith]

Those kinds of rules would piss me off. I guess because I already know better, and don't take kindly to being treated like a child. However the rules they have make sense given the crowd they were taking, I guess. I would opt out and go with another charter that would recognize my abilities and allow me to dive within my ability. It'd be pretty asinine for me to pay for a charter that's not geared towards my profiles and then bitch about it afterwards..........well, dumbass, you shouldn't have come on this charter! That's what I'd tell myself......

Me personally, I'm way more wary if doing 5 recreational dives to around 100ft in a day as opposed to 2-3 longer decompression dives in a day. 5 dives to 100ft in a day, even in recreational limits, is very aggressive. Diving that kind of profile, you can't say anything is an undeserved hit even though each dive may be within "Recreational" limits. That's way aggressive.

 

[psychocabbage]

Ok, there's some kind of unstated assumption going on here... Please clear it up for me. Let's say we're getting on a boat together and we're going to do some number of dives. Do you plan your depth ahead of time or simply dive and watch both computer and gas to determine where to go and when to return?

Because if it's the former, I don't see the problem with their rule. If you don't plan to go to 100', so maybe you plan to go to 90'. There's no reason to be at 102 or 105. It has nothing to do with what the computer says is ok on that dive, it's simply that you didn't plan to go there, computer or not.

Plan your dive, dive your plan.

On the other hand, if your plan is to go to 90' and have a look around, and maybe you'll go deeper if you find something you like, you'll play it by ear while watching the computer's NDL and your gas, well then I can see how the rule would chafe you.

That's a much looser definition of the phrase "plan your dive."

Well.. Most of our dives are quite simple in this regards.. SP for instance was done using the rule of 1/3s.. 1000 to get there.. 1000 to look around and 1000 to head back up..

In Cozumel, when we shore dive, we basically go out till we hit 1500psi then turn and head back.. we have no idea where we are going. We just take a heading so we know where to return and go... if something looks neat, we go check it out.

Often when on the boats in Cozumel, the DM/guide will say that we are only going 90ft.. Then you find him and everyone else at 108ft. So what then? Pool must of gotten deeper than he figured before hand huh? I usually watch my air all the time because I find it interesting to compare my rate vs that of my families. Lets me see who is going to have to go up first and who is going to be their buddy for that ascent.

Flower Gardens has been on my wifes list of dives to do for a while now since we are in Houston and its a short trip get on the boats that go.. I am not all too keen about it because I am a very picky eater. We will go.. I just have to get my food all in order so its not an ordeal for me to get my caloric intake. (I dont eat fish or vegetables..)

 

[ianr33]

Well.. Most of our dives are quite simple in this regards.. SP for instance was done using the rule of 1/3s.. 1000 to get there.. 1000 to look around and 1000 to head back up..

Errr........that would be the rule of 2/3rds not the rule of 1/3rds.

 

[ianr33]

In the case of the diver being discussed...IWR was not only outside the boat's protocol, it was an impossibility for that trip.

While IWR might be an option for technical divers who have extensive knowledge of deco theory and buckets of oxygen it is a complete non starter for recreational divers who only have 32% nitrox.

On another note the FG were made for nitrox. Most of the dives are more like 80 feet rather than 100. Unless you have either a large tank or an exceptional SAC rate you will be no where near deco limits on 32%. Surface intervals are a mandatory 3 hours which helps as well.
I dont think I have ever actually done 5 dives there in a day. Sitting (or rather sleeping!) out the fourth dive to make sure I have energy for the night dive is my preferred strategy.

 

[Blackwood]

^^ I'd suggest that IWR has much more to do with the crew and its equipment than the divers and theirs.

In any case, on a boat the captain is king. What happens is his/her responsibility, and he/she makes the rules accordingly. Do your research and pick a boat that suits your needs and accomodates the dives you want to do.

 

[diver 85]

Interesting attidude you have there.. nonetheless.. You shouldnt take offense to rules that you didnt make. Geesh..

I dont drink alcohol so thats not an issue for me. I have never emptied a tank without the intention of doing so. So the other two rules are just blah to me.. Its really that insinuation that if I go to 102 or 105 that my dives are done for the day. Thats seriously messed up.

When I dove the Speigel Grove, I liked their attitude. Pools open. We will be here for an hour. Dont get lost unless you like drifting in the ocean for 1.5 hours. Simple. You do your dive and its all on you.

I personally dive a very conservative profile and stricly adhere to my computer. But thats me.

(by the way.. this site has too many people whose panties are just waiting to be wadded up..)

By chance, how many hrs are you away from a chamber ride while diving the SG???