Avanti Quattro + vs X-Stream vs RK3 vs Supernova - help me choose my next fins

[Shabaday]

Those two fins are easy on the legs. That is why I use them. I can't imagine you can get the propulsion you are looking for with them. Hence why they are so easy to use. Wife has the Quattro's and does well with them BUT she has very strong legs. Was a runner for over 30 years

Could you please elaborate? I would have thought that the Xstreams would be (fairly) easy on the legs...

one two

 

[Scott]

Avanti Quattro +: I've kicked those for years. Always been a Mares fin fan. They're not my favorite travel fin since the X-Stream, a bit heavy. I use them more for tech dives as they are stiffer than I need for warm water and pretty fish

X-Stream: These or my Hollis F2's for warm water.

RK3: On a recent Florida cave trip one of my Quattro's turned into a split fin. A current sidemount student has a pair, and they are under consideration. Stiffer than X-Streams but softer than Quattro's. They may get the nod just on length alone, but doubt I'll warm travel with them.

Supernova: I've had students in all sort of classes with Supernova's. I just can't get used to them. Sorry SP.

 

[SlugLife]

Folks, please go back to the subject of the OP, "Avanti Quattro + vs X-Stream vs RK3 vs Supernova - help me choose my next fins." This thread hijack about trim blah blah is tiresome and irrelevant and certainly stifles and represses people from asking questions for the fear of unreasonable attacks and extreme criticism and ridicule. Enough already of this police state mentality!

edit: You're right. I'll leave my post for transparency. If someone wants to start a thread on the above subject, go for it, and we'll have some classic good old Scubaboard debating, but I'll be ignoring further replies on the off-topic.

Spoiler: off topic

Why is it not correct though? I've noticed that on SB people seem to think everybody should be in horizontal trim at all times. Why is that or what's the logic behind this?
IMHO horizontal trim is for when you're cave diving, against a current, wanna move efficiently when you wanna get somewhere etc. but why should people be in flat trim when they paddle around a reef or on safety stop?

I'm not the kind of person who polices how you or other divers choose do dive.

If you're not or barely moving, it probably doesn't matter what trim you are.

If you are moving, including that "paddling around a reef":

• you're creating significant drag
• often perhaps kicking up silt ruining visibility for other divers
• perhaps unknowingly kicking the reef
• (look amateurish)
• likely have buoyancy issues, meaning you're probably finning and may not realize it and using energy and air.
• most importantly building bad habits.

If you're looking like a sea-horse 95% of the time, and then are met with a current, silt, etc ... what then? Do you suddenly have great trim? I mean, sure, it's not like you're going to die but you sure spent a lot of time building bad habits.

Yeah, my legs aint 60' long. So no worries about kicking the reef.

How long are your fins? A diver seahorse-ing around a reef (not 60ft above the reef), your average diver, even semi-experienced diver will quite often kick things with their fins without realizing it, because we spend 99.8% of our time above water not wearing fins.

 

[Hippopotamus]

I would appreciate it if the admin would separate the posts concerning this vertical/horizontal positioning (non)issue so as to keep the thread on topic, i.e., which fins provide the best propulsion and maneuverability.
I can't help but notice how easily the whole discussion has slipped into a dead end. All I said was that there are two moments during a dive when you'll probably want to be upright. Both the situations are *temporary* and by no means imply that one has to have trim, buoyancy or other issues. At the beginning it's easier to (BRIEFLY) look around when you're upright. At the end, while I'm 5 meters under the boat AND clinging to a line I'm 1) nowhere near the bottom (or reef, or silt) and 2) I'd much rather have a good easy view of what's going on above me, on the surface (while also easily checking my other surroundings).
During all the rest of the dive I'm more or less horizontal. And I can adopt any other position I want to be in. So why all this fuss?
FWIW SlugLife deducted perfectly my situation/setup. I do wear all the weights in my wing's pockets. And I do have something of a forced horizontal trim problem down below (it doesn't bother me on the surface). Like I said, I want al the help I can get, so even a little negative buoyancy may be useful.
So... could we please get back on topic?

 

[happy-diver]

You think your fins are your problem you cant hold horizontal
you want the thread butchered of other relevant information?

And I do have something of a forced horizontal trim problem down below (it doesn't bother me on the surface)

and you have little understanding of what you are talking about

 

[Hippopotamus]

You think your fins are your problem you cant hold horizontal
you want the thread butchered of other relevant information?

and you have little understanding of what you are talking about

Seriously?
Show me where I said that...
Here's to a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I'd say you need to understand English before anything else.
To be clear: I was answering specifically details of SlugLife's post. Not that you've read it, from the looks of it.

 

[SlugLife]

FWIW SlugLife deducted perfectly my situation/setup. I do wear all the weights in my wing's pockets. And I do have something of a forced horizontal trim problem down below (it doesn't bother me on the surface). Like I said, I want al the help I can get, so even a little negative buoyancy may be useful.

I had somewhat of the opposite problem once. I'm simplifying, but a combination of an over-sized wing and rear-weight positioning was causing me to roll-over like a dead fish. Sometimes the things that don't work right can be a learning experience.

I would very, very, very strongly recommend you adjust your weights first, because:

Like I said, I want al the help I can get, so even a little negative buoyancy may be useful.

Light or heavy fins won't impact your buoyancy and trim THIS much. Your #1 problem is clearly something else, and you need to fix that something first, even if intuitively, your brain and logic is screaming "it's got to be the fins!"

Speaking of which, if weight-position doesn't fix your problem, here are a few more things to look into:

• You may be over-weighted. (read more here) The more weight you have, the more your weighting and BCD will mess with your trim, because there are stronger forces pulling you down and pushing you up.
• Air-trapping, meaning your BCD tuning into a balloon/parachute/taco, where air gets trapped in pockets, will also mess with your trim. This is a common problem if your wing/BCD is too big. For example, using an 80lbs wing, while diving a single-tank.
• Dry-suits can do funny things too, (though I personally can't help you with dry-suit issues).

Changing your fins would only be a step I recommend when you can say you're fairly dialed, but an ultra-tiny 2% difference would make you go from near-perfect to perfect. Because unless you're strapping bricks to your fins, you probably won't notice much of a difference.

 

[scubayinzer412]

if you only do 20 dives a year i would rent them!

 

[berndo]

• you're creating significant drag
• often perhaps kicking up silt ruining visibility for other divers
• perhaps unknowingly kicking the reef
• (look amateurish)
• likely have buoyancy issues, meaning you're probably finning and may not realize it and using energy and air.

Being in a slightly head up position does not mean you're kicking up silt or smash the reef. In safety stop non of these things really apply. It kinda sounds like it's more of a 'looks' thing.

I do wear all the weights in my wing's pockets.

I'm not sure what you mean by wing pockets but moving to a weight belt might help. I would try that before getting new fins.

 

[SlugLife]

Being in a slightly head up position does not mean you're kicking up silt or smash the reef. In safety stop non of these things really apply. It kinda sounds like it's more of a 'looks' thing.

Can you start a new thread if you're interested in that topic? I'd be happy to post there.