Australia and diabetes release

[Cacia]

Nice pic, Dennis.

HIPA is one BIG Gorilla. I hope to see you sort this out for us, Bruce. It sure is up your alley, and it is important to us.

I do not consider not filling out forms as lying....I just don't fill them out. No one ever even notices. These forms appear on the boat as you are gearing up...they are not on the web site where they take your money.... Nope. No can do. It is right up there with my right to own a weapon I am afraid.

People can do what ever they think is right and I will respect it. But I will take a stand on this....and I bet operators don't turn me or my cash away.

Okay...spoke to my former husband of 15 years whom I have never seen be wrong about much. He says they can ask. HIPA only applies to health care professionals, your medical record, etc as far as releasing information. He states that the operator can ask for this in order to contract with you for providing diving....BUT by the same token, they can legally deny a morbidly obese person, a person handicapped in any way that could effect their liabity. MD/MBA types deal with this issue often.

So...it comes right back to, where are you drawing the line? Are you going to let an operator who has no health education or liscense determine that?

 

[DocVikingo]

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)?

If so, you can read about it in plain language at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/

Its provisions are binding on health insurers, doctors, hospitals, pharmacies and other health care facilities and providers.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[DiveTub]

My girlfriend and I were looking at going to dive the Great Barrier Reef next year. However, she read somewhere that divers with type I diabetes need a release from an Austrailian doctor before dive operators will allow her to dive off their boats. Is this true? If so, what are they looking for that would prevent a diabetic from getting a release form signed?

FYI, she has been type I diabetic since 1970, well controlled, a medical release from her doctor here in the states to dive and has over 300 dives under her belt.

What the dont know want hurt them.....

 

[wettek]

Nice pic, Dennis.

HIPA is one BIG Gorilla. I hope to see you sort this out for us, Bruce. It sure is up your alley, and it is important to us.

I do not consider not filling out forms as lying....I just don't fill them out. No one ever even notices. These forms appear on the boat as you are gearing up...they are not on the web site where they take your money.... Nope. No can do. It is right up there with my right to own a weapon I am afraid.

People can do what ever they think is right and I will respect it. But I will take a stand on this....and I bet operators don't turn me or my cash away.

Okay...spoke to my former husband of 15 years whom I have never seen be wrong about much. He says they can ask. HIPA only applies to health care professionals, your medical record, etc as far as releasing information. He states that the operator can ask for this in order to contract with you for providing diving....BUT by the same token, they can legally deny a morbidly obese person, a person handicapped in any way that could effect their liabity. MD/MBA types deal with this issue often.

So...it comes right back to, where are you drawing the line? Are you going to let an operator who has no health education or liscense determine that?

This is a bit like saying next time you travel overseas you are not going to fill out the customs forms or if you do you are going to lie on them, because no-one else has a right to know what is in your bag, or where you've been. See how far this attitude gets you next time you travel.
Having worked on the boats out of Cairns, I have been unfortunate enough to have seen several accidents/fatalities caused by undisclosed pre-existing medical conditions. The medical questionnaires are there for your protection and to help us help you if something happens. Saying "I will only dive with my buddy, he/she knows, and I know how to deal with it" doesn't cut it.
We do not make the medical calls. We contact a "dive doctor", a physician who is trained in hyperbaric medicine to Australian standards.

It's time everyone got their heads out of the sand and accepted that your safety is our concern. If you do not want to complete a questionnaire, are you trying to hide something? If you don't want to abide by the laws in place here in Australia, which we as operators must abide by, stop complaining about it and just dive somewhere else, don't fill in any questionnaires and take your chances.

I'll just sit back now and wait to get hammered by all the self-righteous.

 

[Cacia]

No, I won't hammer you---you have a right to run your program however you like. This is not personal between people to me. Look, I get through customs fine, I have been to Iceland, Palau, Japan, BVI this past year so no need to get condescending. Fine...won't dive Australia commercially then, no biggy. Bali and PNG next, this year anyway. I am not giving personal medical information to operators, period. If the fact that my physical for my DM by my own medical doctor is not enough for an operator, I will go somewhere else. It is your right to refuse us and it is my right to go somewhere else. Fair enough?

Dive operators should focus more on counting heads and the things within their scope of practice and leave health conditions to the patient and his physician.

I appreciate the OP bringing this to light.

 

[wettek]

I am not being condescending merely making a comparison. The dive operators are not asking for medical conditions so we can get our jollies after the trip "hey, did you see what that fat guy had today.............", they are required to by the regulatory authorities that govern the industry, so will people stop bashing the operators. Let's also leave the head count crap out of it, as there is enough divers not get counted worldwide (including the US) to allude to anything else.

I am by no means having a go at anyone personally, so please, no-one think that I am. I am just tired of doing my best to look after people and promote safety, but having people say it's ok to lie or hide things. I think as adults we all know that if you lie often enough, sooner or later you will get caught out.

 

[Cacia]

I like anybody that sticks up for what they think, so you have my respect.

I am just not willing...and no, I am not "hiding anything". Maybe certain parts of America just breed people like me, that cannot give up privacy and freedom easily....I just can't go there.

Too many wonderful places for me to dive. I like to go where I have the most freedom, not where I am the safest. I remember another thread we were all discussing what we thought the perfect operator was. I realized I am different. I like the captain and guide who show up on a small boat and basically say "how can we help you do what you want?" So far, I have been very fortunate finding great operators.
I have been happy with almost every operator I have found, to be honest.---35 years of diving! But having said that, I can spot the ones that want to run it like a "school field trip" and I run the other way. The more rules, the less likely I will be there.
I am sure you know people like me are out there and that we find places to dive without much trouble. And the good thing is, there are plenty of divers who really want a structured program, for the operators that function this way. So, like I said, I respect you, and I hope you understand my perspective.

I hope if these questionaires are going to be enforced that they are introduced on the initial point of contact, or the web site, not pulled out last minute or after travel expenses have been made. I suppose that is the only situation I would feel entitled to lie, omit, etc.

I smuggled my daughter's book bag through security yesterday at LAX, so I do acknowledge being dishonest at times.

 

[ItsBruce]

I'm not comfortable sharing confidential medical information with anyone to whom such information is not essential, e.g. my doctor. If my doctor, a diver, says I'm ok to dive, that should be good enough for a dive operator. But, if the dive operator asks and then lets me dive and something happens because the operator asked the wrong thing, there are lots of places where the operator could be held liable. Sometimes, "don't ask" is a good idea.

I agree with Catherine: If you must ask, then let me know before I plan the dive trip. Then I can make a decision on whether to plan it, go somewhere else, or disclose confidential information.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know. I can see both sides of this one.

I'm a diabetic, and I have a letter from my doctor saying I am cleared to dive. The letter doesn't say what's wrong with me; simply says I'm cleared to dive. The dive operator knows SOMETHING is wrong with me (because healthy people don't have doctor's letters) but doesn't know what it is. The operator is worried . . . what if something DOES go wrong during the trip, and the operator responds incorrectly because he doesn't know what the problem is? Suppose someone comes out of the water seizing. If you don't know they are diabetic, you might assume neurologic DCS and call for a helicopter . . . and watch the person die because they didn't get glucose. Yes, if they come with their own buddy, that person would know or should know what to do. But if they are alone? Or if something happens to the buddy?

On the other hand, where DO you draw the line? Do you disclose mild asthma which is ONLY symptomatic immediately following a respiratory infection? Do you disclose high blood pressure for which you are on meds? Does an HIV positive diver have a duty to disclose that, in case somebody has to do mouth-to-mouth on him? Where does it end?

I don't have a good answer. I think if I were diabetic, I would WANT the dive op to know so they could do the right things in an emergency. But I don't have a strong concern about medical privacy.

 

[Kaiviti]

As someone that is new to the whole diving fraternity, i am quite troubled by some of the things i am reading. Please don't think that this is a personal attack on anyone, because it isn't.

The most dangerous frailty in the human minds is that we think we always know whats right. This is a form of arrogance and it can be extremely dangerous, especially in a diving context.

Yes, dive operators are thinking of their own skin when it comes to these forms. And the person that commented on liabilty, its pointless. If you die, what you have said becomes legally useless. Any family member can sue.

However as a responsible diver, you should fill in the form accurately. For those with medical conditions that have been ok'd by their doctor, keep that information with you. Present this to the operator. Any sensible and genuine operator will accept this. At least they will be informed as to your condition and if, God forbid, something does go wrong, they will be much more prepared to handle it.

When it comes to confidentialty, operators are required by law, to handle the information in a responsible manner. If you are so concerned, at the end of the dive, you can try to request to have your personal details returned. Not sure if this would work but you could try. And it would be much better than lying on your form.

As for the dive buddy comment, some conditions and situation may require assistance from more than the one person. Thats what the dive operator is there for.

So in summary, please have a think about it and do the sensible thing.