Australia and diabetes release

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When I read a response, I like to look at the poster's profile. Occupation? (Doctor, lawyer, nurse, dive operator). How many dives does the person have? How old are they and what is their training level? In what part of the world are they residing? You might want to fill yours in so that your opinion can be put in some meaningful context.

Since you are so in to paperwork and all.....:D
 
Thanks for your help, i will fill in the information. For starters i am only a new diver, i am an engineer, and i live in australia. I have only had 13 dives so far.

And as for meaningful content, you don't need to be a diver with 1000 dives, a doctor or lawyer, or live anywhere in particular to have common sense. And from what i can see, this is all about common sense.
 
Kaiviti:
And as for meaningful content, you don't need to be a diver with 1000 dives, a doctor or lawyer, or live anywhere in particular to have common sense. And from what i can see, this is all about common sense.
Some of it may seem like common sense. But as a new diver one thing you may not have experienced or heard of is dive ops that will decide someone can't dive no matter what they have for a release. For example asthma used to be considered an absolute contradiction, then over time it got to where it depended on exactly what type of asthma and how severe, and many people with asthma dive with no problem. (No, I don't personally have asthma or anything.) But even though some of the world might keep up with this type of change in practices, there can be places or individual ops where they don't for one reason or another. Or they're more conservative or just don't want to deal with it or whatever, and decide someone can't dive.

It would be bad to spend lots of money, go a long distance, then have some op tell you you can't dive because you don't have the particular release they want (that maybe they didn't tell you about ahead of time) or they don't like the color ink your doctor signed it in, or they woke up on the wrong side of bed. Perhaps the odds of this happening are not high, hard to say as I suspect a lot of people who might run into this situation don't tell to begin with. But I think fear of even a small chance of this happening discourages people from telling all. If the same form guaranteed it was for information only and they would not stop you from diving, maybe that would help.
 
If the same form guaranteed it was for information only and they would not stop you from diving, maybe that would help.


what a great point.

if the operator is really just concerned about being able to respond appropriately in an emergency, this should be a good compromise.
 
I second catherine's comment about Damselfish's suggestion being a good one. However, I could envision a situation where disclosure to an operator becomes the hook upon which to hang a lawsuit (e.g., with knowledge comes the responsibility to act in a certain way). If someone omits their condition to a dive operator, how could the dive operator be held liable for something that was concealed by the victim or the victim's family? Seems to me that omitting information only harms oneself. And as to someone's comment about ruining someone else's dive, if you were running a marathon and someone collapsed in convulsions in front of you, would you stop to help and later complain that you were unable to win the race because of some marathoner whose doctor cleared him/her should have refrained from running because he/she had a previous heart attack? If the operator or other divers are called upon to assist in some sort of emergency, and the buddy with knowledge of the condition is unavailable, wouldn't a MedicAlert bracelet or necklace with the condition clearly stated, alert rescuers to the condition, much like disclosure upon a form? I think there's a couple of issues running through this thread. One, whether it is worth disclosing where there is the potential discrimination against diving with diabetes despite the fact that changing medical opinion is coming around to the view that diabetes is not an absolute contraindication to diving. The only danger for a diabetic diver comes from extreme low sugars underwater; if steps are taken to mitigate that by someone with their sugars under control (e.g., half a Snickers bar before every dive), that diver's risks are the same as the general diving population. That ties into the second issue, which is whether there has been enough medical evidence pro or con to make a definitive determination on whether diabetic divers should dive or whether there are standards that diabetic divers should follow. There are none, which is part of the problem. Three, potential rescuers need to know of the problem in order to deal with it. If there was an atmosphere of welcoming people with various conditions, those people would probably disclose, and dive training would probably include rudimentary medical training beyond what is taught today. And four, legal liability of dive operators. If, for whatever reason, they are released from liability, either for nondisclosure reasons or express waiver, that should be the end of it. I think most people on this thread have made good points, and in a perfect world there would be complete disclosure, the appropriate privacy measures taken, basic medical training for all divers, and no liability for dive operators acting in a responsible fashion. However, in a world such as ours, we will continue to debate individual vs group rights, normative values and the like. I'm glad we can continue to educate each other, and hopefully advance the sport of diving.
 
wettek:
It's time everyone got their heads out of the sand and accepted that your safety is our concern. If you do not want to complete a questionnaire, are you trying to hide something? If you don't want to abide by the laws in place here in Australia, which we as operators must abide by, stop complaining about it and just dive somewhere else, don't fill in any questionnaires and take your chances.
This is what I've decided to do. Having made four trips to Australia before they became intrusive, I will not return.
 
DocVikingo:
I repeat, it's prudent to report diseases and disorders because these are the uniform rules of organized scuba, a pursuit in which you have voluntarily chosen to participate and whose overall welfare is in your best interests.

Regards,

DocVikingo
Couldn't we use this logic to rationalize the disclosure of HIV status, say, on drivers licenses? It really comes down to a subjective judgment of the benefit to the group (rescuers, passengers, etc.) versus the intrusion into the individual's privacy. As Ayn Rand said, "Civilization is the progress towards a society of privacy."
 
yes, "uniform rules of organized scuba" need to reflect everyone's interests and before I "voluntarily choose to participate", I first reserve the right to assess this notion that it is in my best interest, for myself. Not just because someone else tells me it is so.

An interesting sidenote...about HIPAA regulations. Recently, I was having blood drawn at Kaiser Permanente in Honolulu. I wanted to confirm they were running the right tests and not omitting any tubes. When I ask the tech what she had me down for, I was informed she could not tell me. I said "what?..I am the patient!" She insisted that only my physician could give me that information. Well, I proceeded to blow a gasket at the lunacy of this. I called my x-husband who has administrative duties as well as surgical and he confirmed this was, in fact, due to HIPAA. By the same logic, you could be getting a pelvic exam, ask what the reason was...and be told that you could not be told! Am I missing something? When I was involved in health care, informed consent was a concept that required you to tell a patient why you were performing a procedure, etc. I find the legal climate now very confusing. It does tend to make me a bit paranoid.
 
catherine96821:
An interesting sidenote...about HIPAA regulations. Recently, I was having blood drawn at Kaiser Permanent in Honolulu. I wanted to confirm they were running the right tests and not omitting any tubes. When I ask the tech what she had me down for, I was informed she could not tell me. I said "what?..I am the patient!" She insisted that only my physician could give me that information. Well, I proceeded to blow a gasket at the lunacy of this. I called my x-husband who has administrative duties as well as surgical and he confirmed this was, in fact, due to HIPAA.

I also went down that road with my doctors office not long ago and was told the same thing. I then told them no test or blood samples till I was told what they were for. I feel that they sometimes take stupidity pills when they write the laws.

Charles
 
wettek:
I am not being condescending merely making a comparison. The dive operators are not asking for medical conditions so we can get our jollies after the trip "hey, did you see what that fat guy had today.............", they are required to by the regulatory authorities that govern the industry, so will people stop bashing the operators.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Queensland is it the industry regulators who decide this issue? To be honest, I thought it was LAW in Queensland to have medical dive clearance?

If it is law, then saying "I'm not declaring an issue, because it's my life I'm risking" is a bit like saying "well, I know that the speed limit is 70km/h but I'm only risking my own life so I'm going to drive at 100 km/h".

If you don't like the law, then dive somewhere else.....

Undisclosed medical conditions are a significant issue - here in NZ we were one step away from having laws made to regulate recreational diving on the basis of coroners world wide sharing information regarding deaths related to undisclosed medical conditions. Thankfully, NZ Underwater (our industry body) had the good sense to push for self-regulation. It's going to come common practice here for charters to ask divers with overseas certifications to undertake a screening questionairre that may result in the need for local diving medical to be conducted (more details on the NZUA website, http://www.nzunderwater.org.nz).

As I understand it, if you turn up in NZ with a letter from a doctor (preferably familiar with hyperbaric medicine) saying that you are fit to dive, then you will not need to fill out the questionairre. Seems reasonably sensible to me.
 

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