Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[gschaut]

D.I.R. (Do It Right) was first created by the Woodville Karst Plain Project. WKPP had experienced a series of preventable fatalities, and created the DIR philosophy in order to increase safety in the most extreme cave diving being done to date. One of the basic tenets was gear placement and rigging. This was done because the WKPP might have 10 or more divers working in a spring on the same day. If everyone carried their equipment on the same place on their body, and the cylinders gas markings were standardized for all tanks used by all divers, that eliminated several major accident problems. It's not that putting your knife on the right, or making the tank's MOD marking be 3" black letters on a white background is the ONLY way to do it. It's that making EVERY diver a duplicate of every other diver, allows each diver to know EXACTLY where another diver's equipment is located, and to perform vital safety checks during the dive. DIR may go "a bit" far for open water, no deco sport diving. But it does teach the importance of being able to locate EACH piece of your buddy's equipment as if it were your own.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Then why not just ignore this thread instead of trolling? Do you get your jollies out of asking asinine questions about cigars and solo? Just let it go man.

Again .....I didn't start this flipp'n thread. The OP started ALL of this by wanting to discuss "Attitudes towards DIR Divers"......... and it's my opinion that one of the main reasons that folks have "attitudes" towards DIR/GUE divers and GUE in general is either the perception or the reality that they may be judgemental and possibly even exclusionary when it comes to what their "members" choose do even on their own time....including smoking, SOLO diving, hunting and diving any equipment or configuration or profile they choose. I don't even know if all that is really true or BS..

I totally get that in GUE courses, training or sanctioned GUE events that GUE gets to mandate anything they want to since it's their party......nothing wrong with that. But setting rules for how their members choose to live their lives or dive on their own time could very well be a reason that others have "attitudes" .....which again is the actual topic of this thread and not started by me.

On the other hand, your asinine post here is like a dipstick that's too short. It provides zero value, information, contribution or anything pertinent or relative to the OP's subject. Just whining.

 

[Lorenzoid]

it's my opinion that one of the main reasons that folks have "attitudes" towards DIR/GUE divers and GUE in general is either the perception or the reality that they may be judgemental and possibly even exclusionary when it comes to what their "members" choose do even on their own time....including smoking, SOLO diving, hunting and diving any equipment or configuration or profile they choose.

Who is the "they" in this sentence? GUE the organization or divers who have taken GUE courses? (We dealt with the "members" issue earlier and clarified that membership is a separate thing from the training courses. And maybe that's why you put "members" in quotations.) I prefer to focus on us divers, not the agencies from which we received training. Focusing on GUE the organization rather than the divers who took GUE courses is looking for a bogeyman. Some divers are going to be judgmental and frown on others' ways of doing things, but I don't think this is exclusive to GUE-trained divers. For the most part, the GUE-trained divers I have been acquainted with don't seem overly concerned about what others who are not their dive buddies may do "on their own time."

But setting rules for how their members choose to live their lives or dive on their own time could very well be a reason that others have "attitudes" ...

Can you point to these "rules" about "on their own time"? There are definitely standards for how dives are conducted during courses, and the non-smoker thing is a prerequisite for taking a course, but outside of a course or a dive where your buddies want to adhere to GUE standards, I think some of the things that seem to concern you are more aspirational than "set." You could, if you so chose, do whatever you want outside of a course and outside of a dive where the buddy team agrees to adhere to GUE standards. Keep in mind there are many divers, even cave and tech, who received training from multiple agencies--some are even instructors for multiple agencies.

Any repercussions from doing something that goes against the grain of what GUE teaches are not likely to come from GUE the organization but rather from prospective dive buddies. If someone gets the impression you are an unsafe diver, then I can completely understand how they might decline to dive with you. If someone who has no interest in diving with you pipes up with criticism about how you dive, then they are a judgmental jerk.

By the way, does GUE have a standard that addreseses hunting? I've never heard that, though I could see the argument that hunting conflicts with GUE's promotion of marine life conservation.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Who is the "they" in this sentence? GUE the organization or divers who have taken GUE courses? (We dealt with the "members" issue earlier and clarified that membership is a separate thing from the training courses. And maybe that's why you put "members" in quotations.) I prefer to focus on us divers, not the agencies from which we received training. Focusing on GUE the organization rather than the divers who took GUE courses is looking for a bogeyman. Some divers are going to be judgmental and frown on others' ways of doing things, but I don't think this is exclusive to GUE-trained divers. For the most part, the GUE-trained divers I have been acquainted with don't seem overly concerned about what others who are not their dive buddies may do "on their own time."

Can you point to these "rules" about "on their own time"? There are definitely standards for how dives are conducted during courses, and the non-smoker thing is a prerequisite for taking a course, but outside of a course or a dive where your buddies want to adhere to GUE standards, I think some of the things that seem to concern you are more aspirational than "set." You could, if you so chose, do whatever you want outside of a course and outside of a dive where the buddy team agrees to adhere to GUE standards. Keep in mind there are many divers, even cave and tech, who received training from multiple agencies--some are even instructors for multiple agencies.

Any repercussions from doing something that goes against the grain of what GUE teaches are not likely to come from GUE the organization but rather from prospective dive buddies. If someone gets the impression you are an unsafe diver, then I can completely understand how they might decline to dive with you. If someone who has no interest in diving with you pipes up with criticism about how you dive, then they are a judgmental jerk.

By the way, does GUE have a standard that addreseses hunting? I've never heard that, though I could see the argument that hunting conflicts with GUE's promotion of marine life conservation.

Actually, hunting doesn’t conflict with marine conservation. In our opinion, spearos are some of the most responsible advocates of conservation by people who consume seafood in that we only target certain species. There is no by catch and most spearos only take exactly what they will consume.
As opposed to commercial fishing that sits at around 30% by catch that gets dumped, and also think about all the seafood that goes bad in markets before it’s sold that get thrown away.
Also, think about the efforts to eradicate lionfish in FL and purple urchins in CA. Spearfishermen and urchins divers are helping with these issues.
Whether GUE has any protocols on spearfishing, I seriously doubt it, that is not their mission.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Again .....I didn't start this flipp'n thread. The OP started ALL of this by wanting to discuss "Attitudes towards DIR Divers"......... and it's my opinion that one of the main reasons that folks have "attitudes" towards DIR/GUE divers and GUE in general is either the perception or the reality that they may be judgemental and possibly even exclusionary when it comes to what their "members" choose do even on their own time....including smoking, SOLO diving, hunting and diving any equipment or configuration or profile they choose. I don't even know if all that is really true or BS..

I don't know where you're getting the hunting thing? GUE doesn't have a hunting training course but a lot of DIR divers pick up lobsters or do some spear fishing. Nothing wrong with that as long as they do it safely and follow local fishing rules.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Who is the "they" in this sentence? GUE the organization or divers who have taken GUE courses? (We dealt with the "members" issue earlier and clarified that membership is a separate thing from the training courses. And maybe that's why you put "members" in quotations.) I prefer to focus on us divers, not the agencies from which we received training. Focusing on GUE the organization rather than the divers who took GUE courses is looking for a bogeyman. Some divers are going to be judgmental and frown on others' ways of doing things, but I don't think this is exclusive to GUE-trained divers. For the most part, the GUE-trained divers I have been acquainted with don't seem overly concerned about what others who are not their dive buddies may do "on their own time."

Can you point to these "rules" about "on their own time"? There are definitely standards for how dives are conducted during courses, and the non-smoker thing is a prerequisite for taking a course, but outside of a course or a dive where your buddies want to adhere to GUE standards, I think some of the things that seem to concern you are more aspirational than "set." You could, if you so chose, do whatever you want outside of a course and outside of a dive where the buddy team agrees to adhere to GUE standards. Keep in mind there are many divers, even cave and tech, who received training from multiple agencies--some are even instructors for multiple agencies.

Any repercussions from doing something that goes against the grain of what GUE teaches are not likely to come from GUE the organization but rather from prospective dive buddies. If someone gets the impression you are an unsafe diver, then I can completely understand how they might decline to dive with you. If someone who has no interest in diving with you pipes up with criticism about how you dive, then they are a judgmental jerk.

By the way, does GUE have a standard that addreseses hunting? I've never heard that, though I could see the argument that hunting conflicts with GUE's promotion of marine life conservation.

Good post. And on topic.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I don't know where you're getting the hunting thing? GUE doesn't have a hunting training course but a lot of DIR divers pick up lobsters or do some spear fishing. Nothing wrong with that as long as they do it safely and follow local fishing rules.

Good example of where some folks may believe or heard "rumors" about GUE that are unfounded or untrue.

If it's a fact that GUE divers and GUE as an organization are not at all judgmental about what others do, or how others dive, what equipment they dive or how they live.... then no one should have any attitude towards GUE or GUE divers....... which again is the subject of this thread.

 

[Allen-1]

Golf? A game invented by Scotsmen to encourage people to create more swear words, which is the same reason behind bagpipes and haggis.

golf courses could/should be reconfigured as rifle ranges

 

[The Chairman]

I don't care.....and I am not badgering anyone.

Rly? It seems like you're carrying more than a bit of resentment. It's your right, but just from the few posts here, it just feels that way.

In my estimation, most of the negative feelings towards GUE and even more to DIR come from GI3 clones back at the beginning of this century. Those guys were bombastic a-holes and so full of themselves. JJ and the entire GUE system have done all they can to distance themselves from those former DIR idiots.

I really appreciate the new attitudes they've been working on.

@NW Dive Dawg, nobody is out at the dive sites policing individual divers except in the imaginations of some people on the internet.

Precisely.

I enjoy trying to excel in diving

Yah, me too. I don't need instructors to do that.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Actually, hunting doesn’t conflict with marine conservation. In our opinion, spearos are some of the most responsible advocates of conservation by people who consume seafood in that we only target certain species. There is no by catch and most spearos only take exactly what they will consume.

That's my opinion on the subject, too. Learning to spear still remains on my bucket list. I tried my hand at it in Baja when I lived in San Diego, but I actually never managed to achieve a kill and had given up on it by the time I moved away.