Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[crofrog]

Who is the "they" in this sentence? GUE the organization or divers who have taken GUE courses? (We dealt with the "members" issue earlier and clarified that membership is a separate thing from the training courses. And maybe that's why you put "members" in quotations.) I prefer to focus on us divers, not the agencies from which we received training. Focusing on GUE the organization rather than the divers who took GUE courses is looking for a bogeyman. Some divers are going to be judgmental and frown on others' ways of doing things, but I don't think this is exclusive to GUE-trained divers. For the most part, the GUE-trained divers I have been acquainted with don't seem overly concerned about what others who are not their dive buddies may do "on their own time."

Can you point to these "rules" about "on their own time"? There are definitely standards for how dives are conducted during courses, and the non-smoker thing is a prerequisite for taking a course, but outside of a course or a dive where your buddies want to adhere to GUE standards, I think some of the things that seem to concern you are more aspirational than "set." You could, if you so chose, do whatever you want outside of a course and outside of a dive where the buddy team agrees to adhere to GUE standards. Keep in mind there are many divers, even cave and tech, who received training from multiple agencies--some are even instructors for multiple agencies.

Any repercussions from doing something that goes against the grain of what GUE teaches are not likely to come from GUE the organization but rather from prospective dive buddies. If someone gets the impression you are an unsafe diver, then I can completely understand how they might decline to dive with you. If someone who has no interest in diving with you pipes up with criticism about how you dive, then they are a judgmental jerk.

By the way, does GUE have a standard that addreseses hunting? I've never heard that, though I could see the argument that hunting conflicts with GUE's promotion of marine life conservation.

I won’t tech or cave dive with someone who smokes.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I won’t tech or cave dive with someone who smokes.

I did tech training with a guy who smoked (the instructor) and air shares were the grossest thing ever. So I won’t dive with a smoker either. It’s not just a GUE thing.

 

[jellycatsdad]

I’m considering taking a GUE or TDI Fundamentals course down the road. I’m prepared to get my, ahem, derrière handed to me.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I won’t tech or cave dive with someone who smokes.

I did tech training with a guy who smoked (the instructor) and air shares were the grossest thing ever. So I won’t dive with a smoker either. It’s not just a GUE thing.

I detest smoking and wouldn't dive with "a smoker," either. But what if the person chomps on a stogie once a year on vacation in Havana? Is that person even going to think of himself as a smoker? I sure wouldn't.

They encourage us to be "thinking" divers. Other than smoking being gross and just the thought of sharing air with a smoker making me nauseous, I try to consider what the thinking underlying GUE's non-smoking prerequisite might be. Maybe it's as much about safety as it is the grossness factor. The possibility of diminished lung capacity, increased risk of cardiac events, etc.? We want healthy, capable teammates. Sometimes I feel I have to distill what I have gleaned from GUE as well as other sources into a safety mantra and, as the DIR crowd and others have often put it, "Don't dive with unsafe divers." I'll ask myself if the person who chomps on a stogie once a year on vacation in Havana is an unsafe diver. Lots of things might influence my opinion of a potential dive buddy's safety awareness.

 

[PfcAJ]

IMO an occasional cigar with the boys is not the same as a regular pack a day (or whatever) smoker.

Those two things just aren’t the same.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I detest smoking and wouldn't dive with "a smoker," either. But what if the person chomps on a stogie once a year on vacation in Havana? Is that person even going to think of himself as a smoker? I sure wouldn't.

They encourage us to be "thinking" divers. Other than smoking being gross and just the thought of sharing air with a smoker making me nauseous, I try to consider what the thinking underlying GUE's non-smoking prerequisite might be. Maybe it's as much about safety as it is the grossness factor. The possibility of diminished lung capacity, increased risk of cardiac events, etc.? We want healthy, capable teammates. Sometimes I feel I have to distill what I have gleaned from GUE as well as other sources into a safety mantra and, as the DIR crowd and others have often put it, "Don't dive with unsafe divers." I'll ask myself if the person who chomps on a stogie once a year on vacation in Havana is an unsafe diver. Lots of things might influence my opinion of a potential dive buddy's safety awareness.

I’m not talking about the guy who enjoys a cigar once in a while, I was referencing the person who has a bad nicotine habit and is a regular smoker, to the point that the smoke has permeated all the tissues in the mouth and gums and leaves a smoker residue on anything that touches that mouth. When I was young and in great shape and proud of it, I refused to date any women that smoked. I didn’t care how hot looking, if they smoked no way.
And yes, the health factor I suppose. But that could also apply to any tobacco usage even chewing. Strokes are prevalent with tobacco chewers.
An even bigger issue for diving partners is obesity IMO. It’s difficult for me to wrap my head around someone 300+ lbs and a “what-if” scenario of needing to rescue them in case of a cardiac event or any event. How would I extricate them out of the water? There’s no way I’m carrying someone that large out of the water to safety. So that actually works on my mind more than diving with a smoker.

We are personally allowed to make diving as inclusive or exclusive as we want. There is no legal precedent that states that we must be politically correct and dive with anyone just to be nice. There is another half to that equation, us.
If GUE has established rules about who they will or will not dive with, so be it. That is their personal right as individuals and an organization.

For me I decided to do more solo diving just because I got sick of people and their problems, incompatibilities, and all the issues associated with bad buddies.
In GUE’s case, team diving is paramount to their doctrine so I can’t blame them one bit for having strict rules and being exclusionary to protect the integrity of their buddy system.

 

[Scared Silly]

This thread needs some humor.

I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed seafood trough wiper! I blow bubbles in your general direction! Your mother was a bottom feeder and your father smelt of surströmming! Now go splash before I taunt you a second time!

I will now see myself off the dive deck.

 

[The Chairman]

I detest smoking and wouldn't dive with "a smoker," either.

I'm actually allergic to smoke, so while I detest it and avoid as much as possible I have dove with smokers. Meh. I did a cave dive with one that went horribly wrong. It was in Ginnie, and he quickly outpaced me. He was on OC, while I was on CC. As I hit the lips, he had already hit thirds and was heading back. WTF??? I followed, but he still managed to outpace me. He threw his gear in his truck and left for Tampa, his home. I found out the next day that he had passed on. Was he bent and not know it? I haven't the foggiest. Looking back, I guess I should have guessed something was off, though I don't know how. Spooky.

 

[The Chairman]

An even bigger issue for diving partners is obesity

I'm just under the number you gave and have never had anyone refuse to dive with me. At least that I'm aware of. Yah, I get it, but then few can ever keep up with me should I need to scoot. In my opinion, obesity and fitness to dive are unfairly tied together. The guy I cited previously looked to be in better shape than I was. But boy, did he seem to tire easily.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I also refuse to dive with people that are grossly hung over and still reeking of alcohol the next day.
I’ve went to pick up dive buddies to go diving in the morning only to find them fuming off alcohol so bad they were explosive and looked like they were going to bleed to death out of their eyes.
Stay home pal and call me when you get serious about diving!

If you’re a big man and in shape I don’t consider that obese, I just call that a big dude that’s in shape. Obese to me is someone that is grossly overweight but also a heart attack waiting to happen. If they’re a smoker too then refusing to dive with them goes without saying.
How do we know who is clinically obese? A good place to start would be to observe if they get winded just setting up gear. Someone who has incredible difficulty getting their gear and their body to the shoreline without needing to recover before they can continue for what seems to be an unusually long time. It is our responsibility to stay in shape for our own safety and for the safety and respect of others that may involved in our team or buddy circle.
How fair is it to be knowingly in marginal physical shape but insisting that everyone needs to be politically correct and accept their condition regardless of outcome or how someone is to deal with the potential of an accident? Is that selfish? Perhaps an understanding that if anything happens that I can’t guarantee that I will be able to physically to get you to safety and to save you. And if it becomes fatal then I have to live with that.
I have an artificial hip and my back isn’t the greatest, I can’t carry someone that big anymore.
If someone doesn’t want to dive with me because I have an implant and wouldn’t be able to save them I would totally respect that.