Attention Steel Tank Dive Ops: HP Hot-Dipped Galvanized are back in production!

[dumpsterDiver]

3 years does seem like a short time, but...if they are used daily then that is around 1000 dives maybe they get filled more than once a day and not used on others... In any regard, if the tank cost $300 and they get used 1000 times, the cost is around 30 cents per dive... Not all that expensive - maybe it is closer to 50 cents a dive..

 

[lowviz]

Except that in Dave's world aluminum tanks get filled just as often and last for decades. I'm willing to bet that the steel tanks are not failing for too many cycles. ...//...

If the proper round out procedure is not being followed, some hydro center owes some dive shop a hell of a lot of money...

Edit
Tape this on your tanks:
http://files.meetup.com/517611/PST Technical bulletin D100.pdf

 

[2airishuman]

Faber (with XS Scuba) has reintroduced HP Hot-Dipped Galvanized scuba tanks ! This is GREAT news for the steel tank ops who may want/need to replace their aging PST/Worthington HP tanks, and wish to avoid having to buy those delicate painted tanks.

In the USA, diverightinscuba has them for sale right now, divegearexpress will have them on safe soon, others undoubtedly will also be offering these new tanks.

That's fantastic. I've never liked the painted cylinders, and it's hard to find galvanized 120s used, and a hassle to get the PST ones hydroed around here.

Hmm, if the HP tanks are anything like the LP's ops should think about replacing them when they are oh, 50 or 60 years old. My 72's from 53 and 54 passed hydro about a year ago.

They will certainly last that long if cared for and used by an individual diver, even one who dives often. My oldest cylinders are from the 60s.

Dear Jim, it depends on how much you use them, and how you keep your workers and customers from abusing them. We've been using plastic tank protectors for some time now with the Fabers and without and significant difference from hot dipped galvanized from Worthington. BTW our tanks last about 3 years in continuous service—but lots of care taken.

Not surprising. In a marine environment with daily use, the finish gets chipped, and the steel corrodes. It's hard to avoid chips and scratches in the finish in the routine handling of the cylinders, even if you're careful.

For those who don't know the real advantage of HP 120/10 steel tanks in Cozumel, just know we spend about 50% more of our budget on tanks than do those operators who just use the aluminum 80s. There are good reasons.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Indeed there are. I dive HP 120s at home and am well pleased that Aldora offers them. My first trip to Cozumel will be this spring, and I have a reservation with Aldora.

 

[scubafanatic]

bullsh!t on cycles for steel tanks, even for aluminum. Luxfer takes their aluminum cylinders to 100,000 cycles to hydro pressure. For reference that means the tanks would get filled 3x/day to hydrostatic pressure *5000psi*, 365 days/year for 91 years before they would even think about having a problem, this has absolutely nothing to do with fill speed, or number of cycles, it is 100% operator error, I'm sorry if this is offensive, but if tanks are becoming obsolete in 3 years then you need to look in the mirror and at your staff, not the bottles.

Improper tank maintenance by the operators is what is killing your tanks. You aren't VIPing them often enough, tumbling them often enough, ensuring that you are utilizing proper filling procedures by blowing off the valve and blowing out the fill whip before filling the tanks, doing adequate compressor maintenance to ensure your filters have the moisture content low enough, etc. That blows salt and moisture into the bottles and eats them from the inside out. Hot dipping is going to do a God damned thing about that.
With Fabers you probably aren't cleaning them properly and removing the boots regularly enough to wash them off or touching the paint up when they get scratched so they rust from the outside in. Hot dip will help from that aspect, but not from the problems above.

Again, if your tanks are only lasting 3 years as a dive operator, then you need to check back in on your operation because you are abusing your equipment and frankly you saying that a 3 year service life for a steel tank has me real hesitant to consider renting any gear from you

This seems a bit harsh/hostile, especially if you don't have all the facts.......just sayin'. Dave's always been a positive, friendly influence on the board here.

 

[tbone1004]

whether he is a positive friendly guy, my best friend/dive buddy, my instructor, or completely rude has no bearing on the fact that if a tank is only lasting 3 years, there are 2, and only 2 possibilities.
1. VERY unlikely, but he has a bad batch of tanks. If this is the case, the mfg should replace them for faulty manufacturing.
2. VERY likely, operator error and the tanks are being abused and not treated properly. It is literally impossible to "wear" a tank out under normal circumstances as alluded to by Luxfer taking their cylinders to their hydro pressure 100,000 times. That is filling to hydro pressure, 3x/day, every day, for almost twice as long as the scuba industry has been around. That didn't happen. Improper fill procedures, see that basically every time I go diving outside of cave country, and improper tank maintenance, see that with every rental tank fleet ever. The improper maintenance can be completely irrelevant if you are diving in fresh water and following proper tank filling procedures i.e. cave country, or it can cause tanks to have a premature death if you are diving in salt water with improper filling procedures like I suspect is the case that was mentioned above. Either way, it is 100% operator error for not taking proper care of their gear, and his post has guaranteed me to never rent any gear from him or recommend that operation to any of my students. If they can't pull a valve off and inspect a tank every 3 months instead of 12 and tumble/whip if necessary, or take the boots off at the end of every week to give them a proper fresh water rinse and brush off/repaint any problem areas to keep them in operation for longer than 3 years, then that's just complacency and I won't support that. I understand it's a tough environment to work in, but that doesn't excuse abusing rental gear.

 

[bamafan]

Tbone one thing to remember is these are used by OW divers in salt water with boots on them. I am betting he has issues with pitting under the boots and when they are sucked empty and the valve bumped they can take in saltwater. There would be no way for an operator to know this happened and we all know what damage this could do.

On a side note I have been going pretty regularly to Cozumel cave diving and we rent tanks directly from the large fill station. These tanks at less than a year old look way worse than about any tank you would see in cave country. The valves leak and I can only imagine what the inside of the tank would look like. We rebuild the valves if possible in the jungle but often the neck o'rings are leaking. We take extra tanks on every dive because we know there are going to be issues. I have started taking my 4 or 5 tanks that I will use on a dive and check them for leaks before rigging them. This way at least my "backgas" tanks won't be leaking. It is a pain but the diving is so worth it. You should go sometime.

I am sure the dive op could do a better job protecting and servicing their tanks but it is a business and at some point it is just cheaper to dispose of the tanks.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

Our tanks get beaten up externally, paint or Galvanization wears off and rust shows, Not a pretty sight for divers even if they do hydro OK. We have 500 tanks to take care of and not all employees or customers show proper concern. Getting saltwater inside was an event in 1996 but was fixed by no longer renting out tanks not in our control. WE also have our own fill station which checks every tank for fill when they come in. Now we keep plastic nets around the tanks at all times except while diving.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[tbone1004]

so the 3 year service life is because they start to look ugly not because they fail hydro or vip? that's a different discussion as you are essentially retiring them to keep things "fresh" and pretty not because they are unusable. In that case then I have no problem with it, but the way you made it sound was that they are no longer usable after 3 years because of wear/tear which certainly is not the case. Either way I'm super glad that Faber has gotten their head out of their butt and gone to hot dip as it is an infinitely better coating for the use that scuba tanks go through and upon quick inspection it appears they have kept the buoyancy characteristics fairly close to their painted cylinders so that's another huge benefit for those us is diving relatively warm water

@ Eric, the internal stuff is easily remedied by more frequent VIP, it's annoying, but if you do a quick VIP every 3 months to make sure everything looks OK then throw the valve back on then every 12 months or as needed you do the full VIP then the tanks will go a long ways. This is common practice off the coast of NC where tanks take one helluva beating as well.

 

[bamafan]

Tom, I definitely don't know about Aldora but I seriously doubt the large fill station on Cozumel does any vips. There are no stickers on their tanks and unless they are tracking by the numbers on their tanks I doubt it is occurring. I could definitely be wrong but this is my hunch. It is a huge operation run in a assembly line method.

 

[WarrenZ]

While we were there there were some real ugly tanks on the boat and at the hotel. Made me feel better about my ugly tanks at home however on our final day They had a dozen pristine Faber 80s at the hotel so Dave is spending the bucks to refresh the fleet.

On a side note my final dive was a pair of 120s the older tank was seriously negative at 500 psi and the newer tank was floating with 1000 psi in it so since of the newer generation tanks are noticeably different then the new ones.