Athens Scuba Park--Have they installed the "Cave System" yet?

[Texas Tek-diver]

The degree of liability is not lessened by the type of material used...it's the overhead environment issue for divers not yet trained/certified to deal with it. I, like TwoBit Txn, have very mixed feelings about this. Mine are probably less favorable. I'm not crazy about the use of steel tubing for obvious reasons.

Athens is a great place for novice divers, but why tempt those divers into doing something stupid...maybe even dangerous?

I'll get off my soap-box now.

I'm starting to experience that feeling of deja vu.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

I honestly sit square on the fence about the whole issue. I won't support it by saying I think it will be an assest to the park, or its a good idea, because I disagree with both statements.

I will not lose any sleep over it because I have NO control over what Calvin does. I won't even vocalize my opinion to him unless asked. The instructor I prefer to dive master for works almost exclusively there, so I do to.

Scubafan, you state you enjoy swim thrus and other "simple" overhead environments (I'm paraphrasing) yet you slam cavers. Thats being condtradictory IMHO.


For more thoughts on this subject read this...
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7037

TwoBit

 

[scubafanatic]

Hi TwoBitTxn,

.......about the cave angle, there are many orders of magnitute difference between overhead environments......there's no comparison between swimming through the boats, bus or airplane @ Athens and a real cave.

A real cave can hit you with an instant 'white-out' if it rains while you're down below and washes silt down to you from all directions as the water flows down from the surface........or if someone follows you into the cave and kicks up the silt behind you.

That won't happen @ Athens......

I'm not slammimg cavers, I just think it makes more sense to worry about what they do instead of worrying about people diving through the attractions @ Athens.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

I do believe the best practice for the caves at Athens will be silt outs. People who have no business in the "caves" will silt them out in a hurry. The normal low/no vis in the lake will be a challenge in the caves. The trick in tose caves will be to not kick up silt. You know the clay is soft and once there is a layer inside those "caves" one bad kick and its over for the day. You could catch one of the days where the vis in the lake is awesome and there will still be no vis in the "caves" due to a diver.

IMHO... the best purpose for the caves will be line drills and silt outs.

There is still not immediate access to the surface. I could see an inexperienced diver in one of those "caves" hitting no vis and freaking out. Then what happens?

TwoBit

 

[sealskin98]

Can I get someone to help me on not raising silt if they get the swim throughs "open?" (pun intended)

 

[scubafanatic]

........I don't think an Athens silt-out can remotely compare to a real cave silt-out.

Firstly, at Athens you have a sort of X-ray vision available.......that is, before penetration you can swim over the cave tubes and form a mental picture of the path you'll follow once inside.....assuming it isn't designed as a super complex labyrinth, which I'd bet against.

Secondly, the 'tubes' are smooth interiors, you won't risk getting smacked in the face by randomly placed stalagtites/stalagmites.

Thirdly, the 'tubes' have arms-width interiors, so even in poor visibility you can successfully 'feel' your way out without the risk of doubling back and getting confused that way.......that won't work in a real cave.

Yes, it's possible that a very inexperienced diver could still "freak-out".........it's not possible to totally 'idiot-proof' anything.......heck, the vast majority of drowned scuba divers are found to have failed to ditch their weightbelts......there exists a level of stupidity nobody can engineer away in any activity.

 

[Texas Tek-diver]

I'm sure sensing that overwhelming feeling of Deja Vu...just some new players this time.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

Ok I'll keep at this...

I don't think an Athens silt-out can remotely compare to a real cave silt-out.

Neither one of us has ever been in a cave so neither one of us can rightfully make this conjecture.

I have been in a no-vis situation whe I had no visual reference as to up or down. I got nervous and queesy. I was not in a confined space.

Firstly, at Athens you have a sort of X-ray vision available.......that is, before penetration you can swim over the cave tubes and form a mental picture of the path you'll follow once inside.....assuming it isn't designed as a super complex labyrinth, which I'd bet against.

That is assuming you can keep track in your head where you are. We don't know how complex Calvin is going to make it. I have no doubt he would put the ability to run in circles in the system. It doesn't have to be complex to be able to get "lost"

Yes, it's possible that a very inexperienced diver could still "freak-out".........

Panic is not an emotion reserved for novice divers. Anybody can experience panic. How that person reacts to panic plays a huge role in the out come. Ok so I am the one who initially said inexperienced diver. My bad. I should have left that open to any diver or a diver who in not experienced or trained to dive an overhead environment.

The accident rate at Athens is next to nil. I have no idea when the last accident was or if there has been an accident there at all that was dive related. I honestly hope it stays that way.

TwoBit

Seal.... catch up with Ronbo and our gang at Athens in the Spring and we can talk about teaching kicks. There is a group of us talking about a cavern class and cavern trip to Coz next year.

 

[sealskin98]

That sounds great.

TwoBitTxn once bubbled...

Seal.... catch up with Ronbo and our gang at Athens in the Spring and we can talk about teaching kicks. There is a group of us talking about a cavern class and cavern trip to Coz next year.

A couple of years ago there was a lady form Italy on the dive boat with us in Coz who had went to the mainland the day before and dove the cenotes. She loved it! I was thinking about doing it this summer but it didn't happen. Would luv to do the cavern dives, at least you could always see daylight.

On the kicks, I've tried the "bend your knees and get your fins above you", but haven't worked at it and it didn't work too well. Frog kick seems to be easier for me, although I don't know if it's more effective.

How long is the regular cave/wreck diving class? I've never checked into it. I hear there are some good caves in Florida, but I ain't going in them even if I did get the cert. without a guide!

I hear you on the disorientation, black-out dives take getting used to. That may be something to play with at athens, line the inside of your mask with aluminum foil and have someone watch over you as you try to function. Just a thought, and you would have to feel which way your bubbles were going with your hand or be able to touch the bottom to know which way was up.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

Mike,

There is actually a diveable Cenote on the island. I was doing the bent leg thing last weekend too and I threw a leg cramp in one of the big muscles. Just had to straighten the leg to get rid of it but it hurt.

I do kind of a sculling kick that works real well for me.

How long is the regular cave/wreck diving class?

Dunno. Cavern comes first. I do know that. I'll be in Grad school then too.... I have got to be insane....

TwoBit