Asia trips and coronavirus

[Angelo Farina]

I’ve heard from people on the ground in Seattle that people with obvious and overt Covid19 symptoms were being sent home from hospital because they were “young enough to battle the disease” and they didn’t have any test kits to test them anyway.

Probably here in Italy authorities over-reacted, closing schools, universities, museums, churches and theatres. Public workers (as me) are not allowed to travel at all, and we are invited to stay home and work from here.
Thousands of tests are done everyday, hence the number of discovered cases is growing significantly, and still we are not testing asymptomatic people which were in contact with symptomatic cases, as the authorities in South Korea are doing.
We all hope that these strict measures will manage to dilute over time the spread of the virus, avoiding that a sudden peak of bad cases overwhelms our hospitals. This will make the evolution of the epidemic slower, and probably it will take 6 months to 1 year before we are out of it.
But still I think that is better than hiding the head under the sand, not making tests so that the number of reported cases stay low, and leaving people fighting the battle with the virus without medical assistance, as I see happening in many countries. Including US, where the number of tests done is incredibly small compared with the population, also due to the astronomic costs of the tests (here they are free).
Not taking preventive actions, the infection will peak in a few weeks, and the number of bad cases will exceed significantly the capability of hospitals of providing adequate medical assistance.
It is true that this will make the situation to resolve in a shorter time, but the price to pay in terms of lost lives will be heavy.
I think that everyone should do his best for slowing down the spread of the virus. Please DO NOT TRAVEL. Please, do not visit your parents, particularly if they are old. Do not to go public gatherings, to dancing clubs, to theatres or cinemas, or churches. Schools should be closed ASAP. Avoid any unneeded human contacts. Do not shake hands, do not brace, do not kiss. Stay at least one meter away from everyone. If you have cough or cold, do not go around coughing and possibly infecting other people. Stay at home. If you MUST exit, wear a mask. Try to be tested ASAP for the virus.
I am really worry reading here of people that think to profit of low air fares and empty hotels for going to holidays in this period. Is people so selfish, and do not think that their behaviour can impact on the life of others?

 

[Centrals]

Highly contagious disease but NOT as deadly as eg SARS.
We have just over 100 cases since Jan because we took early action learnt from SARS back in 2002/3.
Surgical mask and personal hygiene is the first line of defense. PERIOD.
In HK coughing in public would NOT go down very well with anyone around unless that person is wearing a mask!
Wearing a mask is very alien to a lot of "healthy" people unless they understood the reason behind it.

 

[Centrals]

Probably here in Italy authorities over-reacted, closing schools.....

I don't think so.
Our schools have been closed since 30th Jan.

No return to school for Hong Kong pupils until after Easter at earliest

The incubation period of this illness can be longer than 14 days!!!!!

 

[drk5036]

Probably here in Italy authorities over-reacted, closing schools, universities, museums, churches and theatres. Public workers (as me) are not allowed to travel at all, and we are invited to stay home and work from here.
Thousands of tests are done everyday, hence the number of discovered cases is growing significantly, and still we are not testing asymptomatic people which were in contact with symptomatic cases, as the authorities in South Korea are doing.
We all hope that these strict measures will manage to dilute over time the spread of the virus, avoiding that a sudden peak of bad cases overwhelms our hospitals. This will make the evolution of the epidemic slower, and probably it will take 6 months to 1 year before we are out of it.
But still I think that is better than hiding the head under the sand, not making tests so that the number of reported cases stay low, and leaving people fighting the battle with the virus without medical assistance, as I see happening in many countries. Including US, where the number of tests done is incredibly small compared with the population, also due to the astronomic costs of the tests (here they are free).
Not taking preventive actions, the infection will peak in a few weeks, and the number of bad cases will exceed significantly the capability of hospitals of providing adequate medical assistance.
It is true that this will make the situation to resolve in a shorter time, but the price to pay in terms of lost lives will be heavy.
I think that everyone should do his best for slowing down the spread of the virus. Please DO NOT TRAVEL. Please, do not visit your parents, particularly if they are old. Do not to go public gatherings, to dancing clubs, to theatres or cinemas, or churches. Schools should be closed ASAP. Avoid any unneeded human contacts. Do not shake hands, do not brace, do not kiss. Stay at least one meter away from everyone. If you have cough or cold, do not go around coughing and possibly infecting other people. Stay at home. If you MUST exit, wear a mask. Try to be tested ASAP for the virus.
I am really worry reading here of people that think to profit of low air fares and empty hotels for going to holidays in this period. Is people so selfish, and do not think that their behaviour can impact on the life of others?

Angelo, I think your point is well intended, but it certainly has a slant of coming from a place like the EU, where governmental institutions are somewhat looking out for the best interest of people as a whole. We would all be so lucky to have governments like that!

I think it’s dangerous to call people traveling during this time selfish. If someone has put down a massive deposit, and doesn’t want to travel because of the coronavirus, yet the airlines and dive shops are unwilling to refund the money, who is being selfish now? Is it expected for the travelers to front all of the burden in this case?

I have a liveaboard scheduled for early May in the Maldives. If the airlines and dive operator decided that it is beneficial for all that this excursion doesn’t take place and all the money will be refunded, I have no problem delaying the trip to a better time. However if they expect me to burden the loss of 6000 dollars, nearly two months salary, I think that’s unfair.

Furthermore, places like Southeast Asia have no social constructs to support people if the tourism money dries up. It’s all well and good to stop traveling to prevent the spread of disease, but I think many of the independent tour operators in places like Thailand and Indonesia would take the risk, if they had to choose between that or not eating next month.

Again, if everywhere was as good as Europe regarding social safety nets, this wouldn’t be an issue! But until that point, I think it’s something we all have to try to achieve a safe balance on.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Angelo, I think your point is well intended, but it certainly has a slant of coming from a place like the EU, where governmental institutions are somewhat looking out for the best interest of people as a whole. We would all be so lucky to have governments like that!

I think it’s dangerous to call people traveling during this time selfish. If someone has put down a massive deposit, and doesn’t want to travel because of the coronavirus, yet the airlines and dive shops are unwilling to refund the money, who is being selfish now? Is it expected for the travelers to front all of the burden in this case?

I have a liveaboard scheduled for early May in the Maldives. If the airlines and dive operator decided that it is beneficial for all that this excursion doesn’t take place and all the money will be refunded, I have no problem delaying the trip to a better time. However if they expect me to burden the loss of 6000 dollars, nearly two months salary, I think that’s unfair.

Furthermore, places like Southeast Asia have no social constructs to support people if the tourism money dries up. It’s all well and good to stop traveling to prevent the spread of disease, but I think many of the independent tour operators in places like Thailand and Indonesia would take the risk, if they had to choose between that or not eating next month.

Again, if everywhere was as good as Europe regarding social safety nets, this wouldn’t be an issue! But until that point, I think it’s something we all have to try to achieve a safe balance on.

Sorry, but lost money cannot come ahead of health or the life of people. Bad things happens, and you loose money, it is the life!
But endangering other people for not loosing money IS SELFISH !!!
And here we are talking about travelling FOR HOLIDAYS, not for work...
So it is twice selfish, in my opinion. The lost money was by definition surplus money, if it was devoted to paying holidays.
Regarding touristic operators, do you think that here they will get any money from the government for compensating the enormous losses that hotels, restaurants and travel agencies are suffering? People will be fired and loose their job, others will go bankrupt.
But, again, it is just money, it has no value against health or human life.
I know that in other countries ethics is different from here, but I continue thinking that the correct ethics is our one, and that placing money ahead of human life is wrong.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Sorry, but lost money cannot come ahead of health or the life of people. Bad things happens, and you loose money, it is the life!
But endangering other people for not loosing money IS SELFISH !!!
And here we are talking about travelling FOR HOLIDAYS, not for work...
So it is twice selfish, in my opinion. The lost money was by definition surplus money, if it was devoted to paying holidays.
Regarding touristic operators, do you think that here they will get any money from the government for compensating the enormous losses that hotels, restaurants and travel agencies are suffering? People will be fired and loose their job, others will go bankrupt.
But, again, it is just money, it has no value against health or human life.
I know that in other countries ethics is different from here, but I continue thinking that the correct ethics is our one, and that placing money ahead of human life is wrong.

And that is why I think money spent on vacation is more valuable than money spent on travel for work.

 

[Angelo Farina]

And that is why I think money spent on vacation is more valuable than money spent on travel for work.

Of course it is more valuable. But indeed not more valuable than human life.

 

[Searcaigh]

The company I work for has a work travel ban until the end of March when the situation will be reviewed again.

We have seen many companies in the building where I work instigate a "work from home" programme, which is what we'll probably do should anyone in our office or in any other company's office in our building contract COVID-19.

The basement car park in my building is relatively empty. I visited Mall of the Emirates on Saturday to eat and go to a movie. The Taiwanese restaurant we ate in usually has a 40 min wait for a table by 12 lunchtime, we were given a table immediately, and there were only 15 people in the cinema - nobody coughed by the way.

I will be needing a break come April and currently looking at diving in the Middle East rather than SE Asia, but I will still need to check with my company if I can take a holiday outside of UAE.

One of my dive buddies has been told by his HR that if he exits UAE to go anywhere (he's planning a cave dive trip in Budapest), then he will have to self quarantine when he returns for 14 days and that time will be deducted from his annual leave!

 

[Dogbowl]

@Angelo Farina , I’m very sorry what is happening to your country right now. Please stay safe.

 

[Angelo Farina]

@Angelo Farina , I’m very sorry what is happening to your country right now. Please stay safe.

I do not think that what is happening here is different from what's happening elsewhere, from a epidemic point of view. The virus is spreading everywhere...
Most people will not die, but still the impact will be sad. The main differences are on how fast the epidemic will evolve. Here we are trying to slow it down as much as possible, spreading the economical consequences on a longer period, but hopefully saving thousands of lives.
Countries where only a small number of tests are being done, and the number of officially reported cases is artificially kept low, will see a much faster evolution of the epidemic, and will be out of the problem before us, but possibly with a large number of deaths.
Our real problem is that this virus is lethal just for old people, and WE HAVE MANY OF THEM. Italy is an old country, where natality is very small since 25-30 years, and on the contrary life is very long (almost 5 years more than in the US). Hence the distribution of population in age classes is strongly skewed towards old people, and this explains why the mortality of the virus here is twice than in eastern countries, where the population is, on average, much younger.
So, despite that effort for slowing down the spreading of the virus, here we will pay a tribute to it with a large number of deaths, whilst in younger countries this number will be much smaller.
For clarifying this point, I post here three charts, taken from https://www.populationpyramid.net/ showing the distribution of the age of population in three countries: Italy, USA and Philippines:

It is quite obvious that the mortality of the virus will be very high here, not so high in USA, and absolutely negligible in Philippines...