Ashamed!!!!

[drbill]

Personally, I welcome ALL new members to SB regardless of whether they are newbies or well-established members of the dive community.

I think more manufacturers should get involved with boards like this, even if they don't post replies. At least they'll hear both the complaints and the praise from those who buy or use their products.

I see nothing wrong with those who posted satisfaction with the same product... it gives perspective to the complaints (which may be quite justified in those individual instances, but not necessarily reflective of the overall customer experience).

Has this nation come to the point where it cannot take constructive criticism as a positive thing? We scientists have to do it all the time with peer review of our research. Flames are a different story... just use common courtesy in expressing your opinions.

Dr. Bill

 

[Dryglove]

jepuskar once bubbled...

When you reference a 'poodle jacket' I see a blatant attitude and lack of respect for people who don't wear a wing setup. Also, it really wasn't Halcyon's fault you got stuck with the so-called poodle jacket, it was your fault for selling your original setup before the goods arrived.

Your right im not a big fan of jacket bc's. I dont have a blatant attitude towards people who dont use bp/wings. I used a jacket bc for quite a while before buying my knighthawk which i sold to buy a bp/wing setup. Several of my dive buddies use jacket bc's and back inflate bc's.

Get your information straight. I received my bp/wing set up in plenty of time before my vacation. What i received was a wing with two holes in it and no one wanting to do anything about it.I even offered to pay for the faster shipping to get it here before my vacation. But that wasnt the problem. The manufacturer and distributor wanted to have a pissing match over who was to blame to the best of my knowledge. From there it was blamed on UPS and finally tried to shift the blame to me somehow. In the end it was settled and i got my new wing. Unfortunately it was 4 weeks later.

I have always posted the good and bad of products i have purchased and will continue to do so. I have a ton of respect for JJ and what he has done in the dive industry but will not hide the fact that i had a bad experience just as i would not hide the fact that his products are great. What i will not do is kiss his butt because of his position and hide the fact that i had a bad experience cause i think he is a diving god. JJ is human like the rest of us and is hopefully here to get some feedback wether its good or bad as long as its reasonable.

 

[wapyaly]

I have to say I have a foot in both camps here. I agree that senior members of a Company should be treated with respect for the position they hold, HOWEVER, any CEO, VP, MD etc worth his salt would take on board and listen when people have genuine issues with any products or services that the company sells. They should also be willing to address them and try all they can to put them right. I think that what is being missed here is the fact that this is a discussion board about diving and related issues and is a way of sharing information and experiences, be they good or bad. I do have to say that if the problems that have been experienced were so bad, then maybe the issues should have been raised direclty with the company for them to address.

Everybody has their own opinion based on their experiences, but as we live in a democartic society where we have free speech, is it such a bad thing to say what we think, customers are always right (even when they are wrong!) or so the saying goes. I'm sure we have ALL learned a great deal from this thread. You can't please all the people all of the time.

 

[cobaltbabe]

wapyaly once bubbled...
You can't please all the people all of the time.

I agree with this statement as well but do you not think that sometimes people, and jepuskar has pointed this out on several occasions, use the net as a shield. They know they can say whatever they want no matter how hurtful or damaging without fear of being confronted physically. All they have to do is turn the computer off and it all goes away. If you say something on a board you should be willing to sit at a table with that person and have a conversation about the subject without feeling uncomfortable. Yes, have a strong opinion but don't hide behind the web.

 

[JohnF]

cobaltbabe once bubbled...
But not because of his position. I have no problem giving anyone, at any level of business or life respect.

Hey. This is a rarity. Everyone posting in this thread is on the money. Perhaps in varying degrees but everyone is somewhat correct. Let me take my kick at the cat. Sorry Cat, that's figuratively, not literally.

First off, I don't think JJ expected any more or any less than the reception he received. He may not frequent the forums and newsgroups as much as some but you can bet he has an idea of what the prevailing opinion is in re his varied interests. And I don't say that critically or cynically. He strikes me as a pretty smart fella and I don't know any smart businessmen who don't keep their ears to the ground. He knew exactly what was being said and he thought it time to put in an appearance. Given his excellent personal reputation and polished prose style, why wouldn't he drop in occasionally, if for no other reason than to remind us that he's still at the helm and concerned about what the public thinks about his companies' products and services. In this case he's letting us all know that the displeasure of a few with Halcyon hasn't passed unnoticed and it will be addressed, by him. Points to him.

So don't feel too bad for JJ. I think he'll survive his visit with his ego intact. He didn't get to the position he's in today by being run off by a bit of *****ing. And I'm pretty sure that a couple of messages registered. One with JJ, that all is not well in the PR and/or QC department. It may not be seriously amok, or even a solvable problem, but if there's a problem in one person's mind, or two, it may be worthy of JJ's consideration. The other point that should have registered with some of the folks here is that JJ heard the rumblings and acknowledged them personally. He didn't have to show up and address any issues. The list of dive gear manufacturers who've put in an appearance here is very short and I for one give them a lot of credit. It takes guts sometimes to stick your bare butt out in what has the potential to become a very hostile environment. For these guys it isn't just about a little bickering. This is about a business, a life support system of another kind than we're used to discussing.

As for the "attacks", think of those as wake-up calls. I'm sure JJ does, and I suspect he appreciates them, regardless of the spirit behind them. No business runs flawlessly and a smart business operator wants to know the bad with the good. That way he can do something to correct matters at best, or pour oil on the waters to smooth things out at the least. Sometimes it's impossible to fix all the booboos.

As for the identity crisis. Rumour has it JJ received approximately 30 emails and PM's after his initial post appeared. I'm sure he was greatly relieved to learn that he was in fact JJ. 8)

Finally, the respect. This is the internet. Anyone who has spent more than a visit or so to the newsgroups and forums knows how it works. Get thick skin or get out. JJ has already survived a few encounters of the rec.scuba kind. Interesting note though. I don't remember him being quite as hard-pressed as he was here, but that's not part of this discussion. Outside the internet, he's a CEO, a boss, a big cheese. They don't get to their lofty positions by dwelling on how people talk to them or about them. Most of them are smart enough to make a judgement as to where the talk's coming from and base their level of concern on that. Talk being so cheap on the internet, the adverse stuff here probably isn't even noticed.

So dinna fash yerselves (sp? I'll defer to a Scotsman) about JJ's feelings. He accomplished at least part of what he wanted to accomplish, I suspect, and I have a hunch that he will now do some deliberating on what course of action he needs to follow next. At least that's how I'd see it if I was in his shoes. He's a businessman. He's not stupid.

I for one think it's great to have high ranking representatives of gear manufacturering companies participate in our forum, to any degree. For one thing it acknowledges that the forum has some degree of credibility. It also gives us an opportunity to get information straight from the horse's mouth instead of from a horse's -ss the way we get much of it.

That being said I don't think we should change the way we go about the business of treating posters in the forum, whether the name is JJ or Genesis. If your normal way is to be a boor, then by all means carry on in that style. It would be phoney to do it any other way. If you make a habit of being respectful to folks, then be a beacon in the wilderness, you will get your reward in Heaven. If you are prone to asking pointed questions and offering valid, if embarrassing, criticisms, then don't change for anybody. Without that kind of approach we'd have very little discussion, and a pretty boring forum filled with nothing but trip reports to silty quarries and tiresome Caribbean reefs. 8)

Respectfully
JohnF

 

[Kat]

I thought this thread was going to be about Jepuskar trying to swim that 400 again, unsuccessfully.

I'm just going to quietly back out, I was never here. sshhhh..

 

[The Chairman]

1) No flames! You had some pretty upset people in there, and yet I don't recall any name calling.

2) Both sides of the story! The facts were laid down on both sides and that’s a good thing! Many times, when we hear one sided arguments the staff here has taken it upon themselves to involve the other party. We are more than happy that a user has taken it upon them selves to do that for GUE.

3) Respect is earned (so is a bad rep, Jep) and that takes time. No one owes respect to anyone, but you do owe people a certain courtesy.

4) The TOS was followed. No matter if you are JJ or Jep, we expect our users to follow the TOS. That means that they can disagree and don't even have to like each other. They can do anything within the TOS (even express disdain) but they can't use their own notoriety, or the notoriety of the person in question as an excuse to break the rules. They all played fair.

The reality of the matter is, it takes a hundred satisfied users to undo the harm created by one dis-satisfied user. It's probably best to try and win your dissatisfied customers over ASAP as they are far more productive in proclaiming how bad you are!

And Jep... it probably takes a 100 good posts to overcome one troll. So keep it up, and you will be about even before the century is out! :tease:

 

[jepuskar]

I'm not sure when I'm gonna attempt the 400 again.....that book Walter recommended is good stuff. I am very grateful for that recommendation. I'll be trying it as soon as I get to work at some of the drills in there.

Jason

 

[SeaJay]

We all tell JJ what he's done right?

1. JJ assembled the DIR program. Sure, he had help, and sure, he wasn't the "inventor" of some of the configurations; he's never claimed to be. What he did invent was the program. Many people here have been touched by it, and to the best of my recollection, everyone involved has seen tremendous benefit.

2. JJ's products are excellent. They are unique in design and have an excellent reputation for quality. Sure, there's a few people who've had bad experiences, but what company in the world is batting a perfect customer satisfaction record? The last time I looked, his customer satisfaction record was excellent.

3. JJ is a self-made businessman and successful entrepreneur. His organizations are successful and active. The man's made a living diving. Who here can say that?

4. JJ's overall effect on the entire scuba industry has literally rocked every agency's world. The net effect is a focus on quality of education, with JJ's organization spearheading the effort.

I simply don't see why the man needs to put up with someone who focuses on some issue somewhere that happened one time. Why not focus on the positives, rather than the negatives?

Last I looked, by the way... The head honchos at PADI or SSI weren't poking their heads in here. Nor were the head honchos at Scubapro or SeaQuest. And guess what? My bet is that the head honchos of those organizations don't actively dive. JJ's an avid diver... He's one of us.

I just don't get why JJ's presence should result in him taking a beating for being so damned good at what he's done.

Makes no sense to me.

 

[Dryglove]

SeaJay once bubbled...

2. JJ's products are excellent. They are unique in design and have an excellent reputation for quality. Sure, there's a few people who've had bad experiences, but what company in the world is batting a perfect customer satisfaction record? The last time I looked, his customer satisfaction record was excellent.


I simply don't see why the man needs to put up with someone who focuses on some issue somewhere that happened one time. Why not focus on the positives, rather than the negatives?


I just don't get why JJ's presence should result in him taking a beating for being so damned good at what he's done.

Makes no sense to me.

I dont know if your directing any of this towards me but i am gonna reply

Maybe if you had gone through what i did you would have a slightly different attitude. You werent the one that was being told that you were gonna eat a 300.00 wing that you have held in your hands for 10min and had absolutely nothing to do with it getting the mystery holes. I also stated JJ has done some great things and makes some great gear. For the first time JJ has some stiff competition in the single wing dept which i would guess to say is the biggest selling wing.

I more than give JJ his props but the lack of customer service on the manufacturer and suppliers part screwed me over big time and almost cost me some serious money if i had to eat that wing. I dont know about you but im not made of money.

I did not post any of this to give JJ a beating but as a way to show him what the customer service was like from my stand point. This was my first and only time dealing with halcyon cs.I hope next time, if there is a next time will not be anything like the first time.

If you kiss up any more im gonna nominate you as the CEO of the "I worship JJ" club.