As a rec diver, what to do if I breach my computer's NDL???

[Lorenzoid]

Admittedly when I started the idea of going into even 1 second of Deco was drilled into us as cardinal sin nr1. Never really told us what to do _in case_ since they trained us to avoid it like our lives depended on it. Only after my deep speciality did I actually come to learn it isn't the end of the world,and certainly not hard to resolve

As has been mentioned, the problem is this is a slippery slope. If "one second" of deco is okay, how about two seconds, and if two is okay, how about next time I let myself do three?

Though I agree it's not "the end of the world," I still don't think it's okay. In fact, I got a different message out of the Deep specialty course I took: there is no excuse for not being able to stay within NDL, and if you want to exceed them then there are further courses that must be taken. (Admittedly, the course also taught PADI's rule-of-thumb procedure for getting out of deco, so the course does give conflicting messages.)

Including this one, there are three different threads going on right now that all relate to the issue of "light deco" in some way. I wonder if that in itself is telling. Is there something afoot in the diving world where a lot of rec divers (or at least among SB members) are feeling that NDLs are cramping their diving?

 

[PsyWulf]

As has been mentioned, the problem is this is a slippery slope. If "one second" of deco is okay, how about two seconds, and if two is okay, how about next time I let myself do three?

Though I agree it's not "the end of the world," I still don't think it's okay. In fact, I got a different message out of the Deep specialty course I took: there is no excuse for not being able to stay within NDL, and if you want to exceed them then there are further courses that must be taken. (Admittedly, the course also taught PADI's rule-of-thumb procedure for getting out of deco, so the course does give conflicting messages.)

Including this one, there are three different threads going on right now that all relate to the issue of "light deco" in some way. I wonder if that in itself is telling. Is there something afoot in the diving world where a lot of rec divers (or at least among SB members) are feeling that NDLs are cramping their diving?

Indeed,I guess he primary issue with going into deco is the correlation between deco time required and the remaining gas supply for it.

Since deep 3 and 4 required either a hangtank or sling to use that problem was somewhat negated. I would've however liked more info in open water than we got about "emergency" deco procedures when you slip over the line. In no way i'd advocate skirting the NDL but it could happen - why not give them the basic tools to handle it? Even a short "Ascend to a maximum of 5 meters and do an extended safety stop as your computer (hopefully) indicates. I didn't even know back then _if_ my computer shows anything other than a blaring warning for deco with a skull and crossbones

 

[lowviz]

...//... there are three different threads going on right now that all relate to the issue of "light deco" in some way. I wonder if that in itself is telling. Is there something afoot in the diving world where a lot of rec divers (or at least among SB members) are feeling that NDLs are cramping their diving?

I may very well be the one responsible for starting the forum firestorm. I don't want to restart it either, just answering your question.

The premise for how to improve recreational safety is this: calculate your max bottom time to NDL using the "established" limits of recreational diving. Next add conservatism and recalculate the dive using the same bottom time. The added conservatism puts you into deco. Do your time on deco (you have to use gas planning). Do no more than 10 minutes of deco, if more then cut your bottom time.

It was an attempt to explore the "unintended consequences" of adding technical thinking and procedures to recreational diving.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I may very well be the one responsible for starting the forum firestorm. I don't want to restart it either, just answering your question.

The premise for how to improve recreational safety is this: calculate your max bottom time to NDL using the "established" limits of recreational diving. Next add conservatism and recalculate the dive using the same bottom time. The added conservatism puts you into deco. Do your time on deco (you have to use gas planning). Do no more than 10 minutes of deco, if more then cut your bottom time.

It was an attempt to explore the "unintended consequences" of adding technical thinking and procedures to recreational diving.

I dunno man. I just plan my dives with conservatism AND stay out of deco. I do have some dives that others would consider too short. Call it peace of mind.

So you propose "no more than 10 minutes of deco" could be the new golden rule, eh?

 

[lowviz]

...//...So you propose "no more than 10 minutes of deco" could be the new golden rule, eh?

Not exactly. 10 minutes of deco INSIDE of recreational NDLs could be prudent for some. Just exploring that idea with a particular person in mind. Far be it from me to make a rule...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Not exactly. 10 minutes of deco INSIDE of recreational NDLs could be prudent for some. Just exploring that idea with a particular person in mind. Far be it from me to make a rule...

Ah, I get it.

 

[Tigerman]

Its not "prudent" to PLAN to do deco without proper training full stop.
If you are "doing deco because youre conservative within the NDLs" youre not doing deco, youre simulating and if you dont have deco training you are simulating something you dont know how to do safely so the excersice other than if you have forced a computer into deco by i.e. setting it to air while on nitrox is pretty pointless.

There IS a few scenarios, like getting entangled and similar scenarios where you may be forced to go from a normal rec dive to deco, but in general there is no "excuse" for "accidentally" violating the NDLs

 

[lowviz]

Its not "prudent" to PLAN to do deco without proper training full stop. ...//...

OMG. Go back and read my OP in the other thread. It was all about formal dive instruction that offers gas planning and elementary tech skills to the rec-only.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If you are "doing deco because youre conservative within the NDLs" you're not doing deco, you're simulating . . . .

I've wondered about that before. So if I set my already conservative Suunto computer to its most conservative setting, such that its NDLs would (let's assume) be less than everyone else's, then when it indicates I have exceeded an NDL and informs me of a ceiling, that's "simulating"? It's not real deco? What is real deco? It's an interesting question.

 

[Tigerman]

Or maybe I will just stick to the topic of THIS thread and the reality of training at THIS point...

---------- Post added January 22nd, 2014 at 12:12 AM ----------

I've wondered about that before. So if I set my already conservative Suunto computer to its most conservative setting, such that its NDLs would (let's assume) be less than everyone else's, then when it indicates I have exceeded an NDL and informs me of a ceiling, that's "simulating"? It's not real deco? What is real deco? It's an interesting question.

Isnt a suunto more like simulating the entire dive as itll put you in deco pretty much if youre snorkling?