Article on Death In Ginnie Springs

[lv2dive]

What part of, "his equipment was taken by the police," in my earlier post, is not crystal clear????

The tanks were tested on the scene by completely reputable individuals who were qualified to do so. This is one of the most open and shut cases of diver error that has ever existed and to imply s anything else is ludicrous.

It is my understanding, from multiple sources, that the equipment Carlos was using was taken by the police and not retuned to the owners (including but not limited to his widow) for several months.

Around these parts, when it comes to dive accidents, if someone they have worked with on numerous occasions measures the gas contents and tells them it is 99.5% (for example) there would be no reason to assume they were lying. Bit I can not say what the police did or did not do after equipment was in their possession.

 

[rongoodman]

This is a dive forum and this is the Accident Analysis area of it.

I am just flabbergasted how many people in 2015 still do not see that after a diving accident the equipment has to be seized by the authorities and tested by a Lab

You're absolutely right. We don't see that, at least not in every case.

 

[Six Feet Under]

This is a dive forum and this is the Accident Analysis area of it.

I am just flabbergasted how many people in 2015 still do not see that after a diving accident the equipment has to be seized by the authorities and tested by a Lab. - and this in the Accident Analysis thread of a Diving Forum.

Does FDLE have the necessary equipment to analyze breathing gas in their laboratory, to include the percentage of each gas present in the mix and any contaminants, etc? They might, but I'm not sure. That would make sense, but you wouldn't have answers anytime soon.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Do you find it weird that Carlos did not want to analyze his tanks but after his death others demand that they be analyzed.

 

[MMM]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

more off topic/name calling posts deleted. Marg, SB Senior Moderator.

---

 

[Abdullah]

This is a dive forum and this is the Accident Analysis area of it.

I am just flabbergasted how many people in 2015 still do not see that after a diving accident the equipment has to be seized by the authorities and tested by a Lab. - and this in the Accident Analysis thread of a Diving Forum.

This gas analysis you are asking for isn't inexpensive. To conclusively rule out any possible scenario would require an analysis for thousands of possible compounds that can exist in the gas phase at scuba pressures, and which also might possibly contribute to incapacitation at the depth the diver became incapacitated. To develop the data set necessary to achieve 95% certainty that nothing toxic was present would be really expensive. Then you would have to add in the costs of interpreting the data set using expert testimony to ensure you've excluded anything that contradicts the witness statements, which support death by misadventure.

It's all about responsible use of limited government resources. Americans are willing to accept a reasonable explanation for a fatality given reliable statements from witnesses. They are not willing to pay for huge government infrastructures to extract the last bit on insignificant minutia from every accident that occurs in their jurisdiction. While some countries with large debt to GDP ratios do perform these nanny state functions, the US does not, and Americans are quite satisfied with their system.

What you are asking for would be considered an irresponsible misappropriation of government resources by most US taxpayers. More likely, taxpayers and legislators would prefer to regulate the root cause, recreational diving, before they added new burdens to the police who are busy enough with community policing. It would be far cheaper to prevent the fatalities through oppressive regulation of the currently unregulated recreational scuba hobby than to chase minutia after every accident. As a recreational diver, I'm satisfied with both the current level of accident investigation and the current level of regulatory interest.

Frankly, I'm flabbergasted that a recreational diver would insist on the level of government interdiction into their hobby that you so fervently desire.

 

[tursiops]

If the Senior Moderator really wants to do something worthwhile, this thread needs to be closed.
The accident analysis is over, the OP provided only new speculation buttressed with nothing, and various contributors are only stirring an empty pot.
Nothing new has been said for what seems like thousands of posts.
It is an embarassment going in circles, full of occasional chestpounding, signifying nothing.

 

[Jack Hammer]

So, has anyone actually conducted a thorough and proper investigation to determine if a thorough and proper investigation was actually conducted? Or are we arguing based upon assumptions and claims from a newspaper article with heavy biases and questionable motives?

 

[Storker]

What you are asking for would be considered an irresponsible misappropriation of government resources by most US taxpayers.

And also by the taxpayers of quite a few European countries.

What Gian is asking for would be considered a responsible use of resources only in Gian-land.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[Six Feet Under]

Do you find it weird that Carlos did not want to analyze his tanks but after his death others demand that they be analyzed.

People demand things of the police all the time because they either aren't satisfied with the findings and don't want to believe they/their friend or loved one were at fault, or because they don't understand the process that takes place in an investigation of any sort. I had a lady call in three times wanting to argue with me over a crash I worked because I found her at fault. She insisted that she did not pull out into a semi truck and drive under the trailer near the back wheels, and that he must have swerved into her while she was waiting for the light to change while going too fast for her to see him (a loaded tractor trailer, pulling away from a dead stop less than 100 feet away, was going more than 55mph.... right, lady). Or the ones that vehemently argue with me over how to do my job on scene of said crash, or on traffic stops.

Like Abdullah said, analysis equipment of any kind isn't cheap and the tax payer does not want to pay for that. If the death was attended, all witness statements corroborate each other, and the gas is O2 analyzed to contain a percentage of oxygen not suitable for use at the depth all parties were diving at, that is all the investigation that will be done on scene. The ME's office will confirm this in their autopsy report.

Real world is not CSI folks. I don't go to my tax guy's office and tell him how to file my taxes, nor did I tell the surgeon how to fix me when I got shot a few years ago. Definitely not saying I know everything, but there are a LOT of misconceptions held by the public when it comes to police work simply out of a lack of exposure to real life application of it, and over exposure to TV shows.