Article on Death In Ginnie Springs

[gianaameri]

To employ a previous analogy, if the police found a guy with a fatal gunshot wound to the head, would it matter that the cigarette in his mouth could give him cancer?

No, but it would matter who may have put the cigarette there after taking the shot and if it was lit or not and how much off it was burnt... (as no doubt the shock and/or pressure wave and/or movement/inertia would have otherwise dislodged the cigarette, lit or otherwise, including if the shot was from a silenced short-barrelled .22LR subsonic firearm and taken at the back of the head).

My point is that the probable outcome of a real and proper investigation by competent Police in this case would in all likelihood not have been different (accidental death), but none was conducted (Lesson to be learned here: do a f. proper investigation next time).

 

[tomfcrist]

Your point is noted...and disputed by everyone with the gift of living in the real world.

 

[HIGHwing]

Still that (if true) does not excuse the tank contents not having been properly examined by a forensic lab.

A forensic lab report is the only way to be sure of the tank content.

Ok. Let's say the foresics showed the tanks were indeed contaminated in some way. We know conslusively Carlos has an at home fill station, his own tanks, he made the gas, filled his own tanks, and failed to label them properly which clearly[IMHO] led to his death. The blame is cannot be shifted when the facts are applied, but we could learn that other divers might be at risk if he was dispensing gas to other divers. Of course, when there is a gas accident most tec divers will dump their cylinders in anyway related to the same source and start over with new fills. So... It's a neato theory, but also a circular argument.

 

[CraigAClark]

Ok, I admit I have not read the whole thread, but I think police etc.... did enough of an investigation to satisfy "accidental death". My question to the OP/article author, was there an insurance claim, where a private investigation was conducted?

 

[tursiops]

My question to the OP/article author, was there an insurance claim, where a private investigation was conducted?

LOL. I suspect if he knew he would not tell you, because it likely would not fit his narrative.

 

[Abdullah]

No, but it would matter who may have put the cigarette there after taking the shot and if it was lit or not and how much off it was burnt... (as no doubt the shock and/or pressure wave and/or movement/inertia would have otherwise dislodged the cigarette, lit or otherwise, including if the shot was from a silenced short-barrelled .22LR subsonic firearm and taken at the back of the head).

My point is that the probable outcome of a real and proper investigation by competent Police in this case would in all likelihood not have been different (accidental death), but none was conducted (Lesson to be learned here: do a f. proper investigation next time).

You went too far with the subsonic 22LR, it wouldn't have had any such effect. And you go too far with your forensics argument, the most thorough police investigation would not have discovered any more than death by misadventure.

Believe your indications- if the tank is marked Oxygen and is analyzed by someone trained to measure O2 content as Oxygen, then the gas is Oxygen. We don't need x-ray crystallography or laser ablation mass spectrometry on the interior tank surfaces to know that the man was breathing oxygen far below the safe depth for that gas. And we don't need to waste finite police resources tilting at windmills to satisfy the delusional conspiracy theories of crackpots far and wide.

 

[steady1570]

. And we don't need to waste finite police resources tilting at windmills to satisfy the delusional conspiracy theories of crackpots far and wide.

I think Gian wants the community to agree that the only correct way to determine exactly what happened is through the proper “certified authorities”. This then leads to the understanding that only relevant authorities (or “notified bodies” perhaps) can categorically decide if something is safe and fit for purpose. We would then need regulation and approval for every (diving) activity…. which of course includes CCR’s and CE, EN61508.... But that is a whole different topic.

(sorry for OT comments, but I think the context matters.)

-Mark

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I see it as clearly on topic. Just hope a mod who has little understanding of the value some posts that may appear to be off topic bring to the discussion. For example making it clear that what some see as necessary others know is a waste of time and resources. That needs to be understood by the general public so that they don't think corners were cut in the investigation. They were not.

 

[gianaameri]

Ok. Let's say the foresics showed the tanks were indeed contaminated in some way. We know conslusively Carlos has an at home fill station, his own tanks, he made the gas, filled his own tanks, and failed to label them properly which clearly[IMHO] led to his death. The blame is cannot be shifted when the facts are applied, but we could learn that other divers might be at risk if he was dispensing gas to other divers. Of course, when there is a gas accident most tec divers will dump their cylinders in anyway related to the same source and start over with new fills. So... It's a neato theory, but also a circular argument.

CO is detectable by autopsy (unlike hypoxia, hypercapnia, hyperoxia), so here I do not think CO was involved.

BUT it takes time to do an autopsy and if CO were involved, there could have been other tanks filled with CO, and this affecting other divers same day or later... hence the importance in general for the Police to secure the diving equipment and having an independent expert Lab, amongst other things, conduct an analysis.

The most very basic thing - secure the equipment and submit it to competent expert analysis - was not done by the Police.

This is very serious.

As to the dynamic leading to the accident it is just hearsay, possibly true, but almost unreal.

Equally, I am sure there was no foul play and it was accidental death (my honest belief, not fact).

 

[Storker]

...I do not think CO was involved...

Whew. That's a relief. You really had me worried for a while there.


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