Are you armed?

[Thalassamania]

Try fine rock salt in load #1?

That's what I thought, but both the consultant and the police recommend against it, not from an "operational" standpoint, but rather a legal one. I guess rock salt is not an official "non-lethal" response.

 

[tlt]

Try some of this stuff, in case they are getting away, lock themselves in, etc..

knock 'em over
AMM-831 - Ammo 12 Gauge ALS Power Punch Ballistic Bean Bag 40 Gram Less Lethal Animal and Riot Control Package of 5

knock down the door
AMM-837 - Ammo 12 Gauge US DoD Breaching Rounds Box of 5 NSN: 1305-01-431-5624 7/8 oz. Frangible Projectile

knock 'em out
AMM-834 - Ammo 12 Gauge ALS Bore Thunder Concussion Cartridge Stun and Diversionary Device Extremely Loud Package of 5

knock sense into 'em
AMM-830 - Ammo 12 Gauge ALS Hydro Kinetic Impact Marking Bag Short Range Less Lethal Animal and Riot Control 5 Pack

 

[RAWalker]

Hey I was a boyscout in my youth and good practices should be maintained through life.
I believe in being prepared and it has served me well throughout my life.
I am a concealed weapons permit holder. I have trained with my weapons and I do practice to maintain competency.
Training and practice are important factors as in diving so if you don't keep up with it you are not truely prepared.
JMHO

 

[adurso]

Yes. The problem here is mainly one of non-violent thefts at night, home invasions with injury to the occupants are rather rare. I set it up this way on the advise of a local security expert (ex-MP, ex-cop, etc.) and the local police. It give me the chance to escalate my response and to start of with less than deadly force.

A guy who lives a few miles away was recently charged with homicide after killing a thief who had never entered his house (he did shoot him in the back, it looks like he was running away).

A citizen fatally shooting another citizen who offers no imminent threat is the very definition of murder...

 

[Thalassamania]

A citizen fatally shooting another citizen who offers no imminent threat is the very definition of murder...

Last time I checked that was the case. Theft is not an "imminent threat" no matter how you let your imagination run on. This is a rather messy case, exacerbated by the fact that the thief was stealing medical marijuana plants that the shooter had grown (thus possibly "threatening" the shooter's life). It gets weirder and weirder.

Do you think the advice I got was good and that my "solution" is a reasonable and rational one?

 

[adurso]

Last time I checked that was the case. Theft is not an "imminent threat" no matter how you let your imagination run on. This is a rather messy case, exacerbated by the fact that the thief was stealing medical marijuana plants that the shooter had grown (thus possibly "threatening" the shooter's life). It gets weirder and weirder.

Do you think the advice I got was good and that my "solution" is a reasonable and rational one?

I am not familiar enough with Hawaii local law and interpretation to determine where 'less than lethal' rounds, like rubber bullets fall. In some places the ammo will not matter, others it may.

Generally speaking a citizen may use dealy force to protect themselves or others from death or serious bodily injury if they cannot flee. Florida and a couple of other states have enacted "castle" laws which do not require a homeowner to flee prior to usiing deadly force.

The duty to retreat until one can go no further may still be part of the code where you live. If so popping someone with a rubber bullet may be battery of some sort.

I have personally seen too many folks unfazed by beanbag rounds to place much credence in their use. They need almost perfect delivery to act as designed.

To answer your question, I think the security guy gave you HIS answer, not a homeowner answer. Less than lethal usage becomes complicated. In a frightening situation even more so.

The biggest problem I saw from homeowners in critical incidents was their inability to articulate their actions within legal parameters.

 

[Tigerman]

Last time I checked that was the case. Theft is not an "imminent threat" no matter how you let your imagination run on. This is a rather messy case, exacerbated by the fact that the thief was stealing medical marijuana plants that the shooter had grown (thus possibly "threatening" the shooter's life). It gets weirder and weirder.

Do you think the advice I got was good and that my "solution" is a reasonable and rational one?

I think that if you ever shoot a burglar with the less lethal ammo and yell at them as they run away "the next one will be buckshot" that theill think twice about coming back to your house..

 

[Thalassamania]

The "security guy" is a friend and a neighbor, I was not paying for the advice (hence what it might be worth), but he gave me the rubber rounds. That's why I checked with the local cops, but we're a very rural area, lacking (at least in part) some of the more civilized and urban concepts like "battery."

 

[adurso]

The "security guy" is a friend and a neighbor, I was not paying for the advice (hence what it might be worth), but he gave me the rubber rounds. That's why I checked with the local cops, but we're a very rural area, lacking (at least in part) some of the more civilized and urban concepts like "battery."

Always go with the local experts; I was picturing a more urban environment, a suburban hilltop residence. not a rural hilltop surrounded by fields or jungle....rural areas are more prone to accepting matters that the urban areas are not.

 

[Hallmac]

Yes. I am.