Are you a vegetarian?

[letterboy]

Or maybe it's from too many times seeing someone spear a fish, and the fish struggling for freedom and writhing in agony for its last moments, and knowing how often that effort is un- or under-appreciated by the hunter, who lets the spoils go to waste simply because it wasn't "convenient" to finish the act by cleaning and consuming the flesh.

I've accompanied spear-fishers on dives. Sometimes they get lucky and get a direct hit to the brain: clean kill, no fight. Sometimes the fish gets lucky with a missed shot. Most often it's neither; there's blood, obvious pain, and the most sickening display of the agony of a beautiful creature dying for sport.

Is this any more painful or stressful for the animal than being consumed by one of it's "natural" predators? I'm not so idealistic or naive to say yes to that, but that's besides the point. The point is, we don't need to kill fish for sport. Any comparison of our entertainment to other species' survival is ludicrous.

Seems that you are hanging out with the wrong crowd . . . Seems your spearing buddies are lazy . . .

 

[Hank49]

Or maybe it's from too many times seeing someone spear a fish, and the fish struggling for freedom and writhing in agony for its last moments, and knowing how often that effort is un- or under-appreciated by the hunter, who lets the spoils go to waste simply because it wasn't "convenient" to finish the act by cleaning and consuming the flesh.

I've accompanied spear-fishers on dives. Sometimes they get lucky and get a direct hit to the brain: clean kill, no fight. Sometimes the fish gets lucky with a missed shot. Most often it's neither; there's blood, obvious pain, and the most sickening display of the agony of a beautiful creature dying for sport.

Is this any more painful or stressful for the animal than being consumed by one of it's "natural" predators? I'm not so idealistic or naive to say yes to that, but that's besides the point. The point is, we don't need to kill fish for sport. Any comparison of our entertainment to other species' survival is ludicrous.

The example you're presenting is no different than me saying that all divers are bad, based on my observation of seeing many of them crunching staghorn corals with their fins etc etc. There are some ignorant spearfishermen, no denial. But that doesn't mean responsible spearfishing is bad.
I don't kill fish for sport....well, I do enjoy spearfishing for sure but I'm not sure exactly why. I like being in the water and I like eating fish. If I don't catch or spear fish, I don't get to eat it. Even though I live near the world's second longest barrier reef, it's very hard to find good quality fish in the market here.
And yes, we don't need to kill fish for sport, because you can get fish that was longlined, or netted out in the open sea. I can respect someone's view if they don't eat any marine fish in order to save them all, but to eat commercially caught fish and condemn spearfishermen is hypocritical to say the least.

 

[J.R.]

Or maybe it's from too many times seeing someone spear a fish, and the fish struggling for freedom and writhing in agony for its last moments, and knowing how often that effort is un- or under-appreciated by the hunter, who lets the spoils go to waste simply because it wasn't "convenient" to finish the act by cleaning and consuming the flesh.

We get it... you're squeemish. I respect that...

But, you really need to become more familiar with how nature works... whether man is in the equaiton or not doesn't change the fact that life sucks if you're lower on the food chain than the thing licking it lips when looking at you. ... and man is NOT the only critter that kills for *sport*... he's just, unfortunately, the only one that has to put up with the moralizing of others of his species...

... and removal from the gene pool in the great pond of life is NEVER pretty, clean or Disney-tidy... critters never have other critters come up to them with "it was over so quick he never felt a thing" lies on their animal lips...

Moralistic philosophy aside... Darwin wins...

 

[NudeDiver]

...that life sucks if you're lower on the food chain than the thing licking it lips when looking at you...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I love it.

 

[boat sju]

wardric,

My hunting buddies are going to love that poster, eh ?

thanks

 

[irishsquid]

I guess I'm an omnivore. I've been known to throw bell pepper and onions on a staek occasionally.

 

[ScubaSteve2000]

Or maybe it's from too many times seeing someone spear a fish, and the fish struggling for freedom and writhing in agony for its last moments, and knowing how often that effort is un- or under-appreciated by the hunter, who lets the spoils go to waste simply because it wasn't "convenient" to finish the act by cleaning and consuming the flesh.

I've accompanied spear-fishers on dives. Sometimes they get lucky and get a direct hit to the brain: clean kill, no fight. Sometimes the fish gets lucky with a missed shot. Most often it's neither; there's blood, obvious pain, and the most sickening display of the agony of a beautiful creature dying for sport.

Is this any more painful or stressful for the animal than being consumed by one of it's "natural" predators? I'm not so idealistic or naive to say yes to that, but that's besides the point. The point is, we don't need to kill fish for sport. Any comparison of our entertainment to other species' survival is ludicrous.

All the spear fishermen I know clean and eat what they take. Only certain types of fish here in AZ are allowed to be harvested this way. I've known a lot of hunters over the years. None of them hunt from a "need to kill something" as the anti-hunting crowd likes to label them. Most of the game fish and animals would over populate their areas and end up starving to death if they weren't managed by hunting and fishing. They also taste good.

I agree with Bucky the Cat. I'm a vegitarian-tarian. That is, I only eat vegitarians.

 

[sibermike7]

man is NOT the only critter that kills for *sport*... he's just, unfortunately, the only one that has to put up with the moralizing of others of his species...

... and removal from the gene pool in the great pond of life is NEVER pretty, clean or Disney-tidy... critters never have other critters come up to them with "it was over so quick he never felt a thing" lies on their animal lips...

I saw this post recently and have provided the link so you can see the sad picture if you want to. It is pretty sad really. The poster/photographer was Steve Tranoff and here is what he wrote:

I ran across a group of sea lions harassing a poor Mola Mola. They were playing with it like a cat plays with a mouse. They had eaten the fins away so the poor thing was dead in the water. I got the following photo, which shows the sea lion with, what looks like, glee on his face.

Here is the link: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4002051-post17.html
If that doesn't work try this: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/underwater-photography/261451-nice-swim-through-forest.html #17

 

[wardric]

wardric,

My hunting buddies are going to love that poster, eh ?

thanks

lol, yeah. And I think those PETA freaks made one on hunting too. I'll try to find it.

 

[sambolino44]

OK, OK, OK! So, if I'm against fishing how come I'm not opposed to TROLLing? Apparently you guys took the bait (pun intended). My last post was in response to someone's question of why String was glad spearfishing is illegal where he lives. How should I know? I just offered my over-the-top emotional exposition to get the conversation going again. I guess it worked.

Truth be told, I don't feel that strongly about spearfishing, but I have decided to ask my spearfishing dive buddy to consider not taking his gun along when we go together. Haven't seen him in a while so it hasn't come up. Sometimes he goes diving to get his dinner for that evening, but sometimes he just takes the gun along in case a good opportunity comes up. Depending on which day I catch him, I don't think it's too much to ask, but we'll see.

I find it interesting how polarizing this subject is. Very few people on either side seem to understand my point of view, not that I'm that good at expressing it, so who could blame them? My wife is a strict vegetarian, for both health and ethical reasons. As for myself, I eat meat, but only a couple of times a month, and almost never the standard commercially processed beef or chicken that is most commonly available. When I eat seafood, I try to make sure it's from sources that don't deplete fisheries, destroy habitats, or pollute the water.

Whether or not eating meat is ethical, I think the current state of the food industry has severe problems, including over-fishing, over-dependence on petroleum, habitat destruction, poor water management, too much concentration on mono-culture and not enough genetic diversity, and too much consolidation of ownership into a few oligarchical multinational mega-corporations. And I think that we, myself included, have allowed the food industry to get so messed up because we are not well educated about food, we have gotten complacent, and we have lost the connection between where our food comes from and what goes into our bodies.

Hunters and fishers have not lost that connection, but the amount of food produced by hunting is pretty insignificant if you are talking about the food industry as a whole.

But, to get back to the point of the OP, I would find it ironic to be at that buffet table on the dive boat, looking at many of the same animals I had just been admiring in the wild. It may be hypocritical, weak-willed, or just plain silly, but I would probably pick and choose those dishes that I "felt good about", like clams, scallops, and oysters, and avoid others. But if history is any guide, depending on my mood I might just as well "pig out" on the whole smorgasbord, or go full veggie.

The point is, whatever choice I make, I'd rather it be based on knowledge instead of ignorance, and I think most people today are pretty ignorant about their food.