Are there too many unnecessary steps to get normoxic trimix certified?

[alfred1]

Hello,

I was looking at how nowadays most certification agencies try to give information with an eyedropper in order to get a lot of paid _tiny_ courses and have people spend more in the long run.

I can understand this and that, capitalism, money etc. but even after considering that:

issues happening at deeper depths are more serious than those possibly occurring in shallow water,
the more you know the better it is,
gas consumption gets huge compared to surface and that this last thing also affects equipment setup, getting a little more complicated...

aren't, say 4 courses, one after another, with increasing costs, a bit too much to dive with normoxic trimix, which could be, at least in my mind, be resumed as gas with same oxygen content as air with the only cons being increased body chilling but having less nitrogen narcotic effect than air?


I'd like to hear what you think, if I'm missing something important other than above said (not to belittle the risks of deep dives and issues at depth).


Thank you

 

[ucfdiver]

I think it's stupid to take the courses separate. NAUI and GUE at least allow you to take what we usually refer to as trimix, adv nitrox, and decompression as one course.

 

[sea_ledford]

So you're saying there is a lot to learn, but 4 classes are too many? I'm confused.

Number of classes depends on who you go through. Usually Advanced nitrox and Deco procedures is a single class even though it doesn't have to be. You can take an intro to tech class, but it isn't required. After AN/DP, normoxic (of some sort) would be next (unless you wanted to do extended range air, but that isn't a pre-req for normoxic). That's only 2 classes, which seems completely legit to me. If you are a rock solid diver, two classes will be plenty of training. If you aren't, the 4 class route would probably be the smarter and more enjoyable way to go.

There is a lot of information there, especially if your original nitrox class consisted of the "check the PO2 here, plug that into your dive computer, don't go deeper than the MOD. Here's your card" type.

I think there are even "recreational trimix" classes that don't require AN/DP. Waste of $ on helium if you ask me though.

 

[kr2y5]

I think the idea is that at each level, you need to internalize what you have learned, apply the knowledge and skills in practice, refine your technique, experience things outside of the class setting, get comfortable, before you can truly benefit from continuing at a slightly higher level. I would have a hard time believing that a 7-day zero-to-hero path that takes you all the way from OW through Intro to Tech, AN, DP, and Trimix all at once, would crank out safe divers that can instantly drop down to 200 feet. The existing curriculum already runs at breakneck speeds: you can sign up for a class that will allow you to do dives that incur unlimited decompression after barely 25 dives of prior experience. How much further would you want to push it?

 

[LiteHedded]

i think the only prerequisite for my normoxic trimix class with iantd was that i had a nitrox certification

 

[alfred1]

So you're saying there is a lot to learn, but 4 classes are too many? I'm confused.

My bad I'll try to elaborate more:

I know it'd be unwise to resume normoxic trimix as I did in 2 lines in my post, however I think that 4 or more steps (depends on agency, some really take a long time just to get into something helium) are a lot for breathing air minus the nitrogen narcosis.

So in my view courses are probably too short and containing too little info to justify the many "steps" (couldn't deco, nitrox and rescue be taught in the same course?) needed by some agencies to get breathing normoxic trimix.

 

[Wookie]

I have both IANTD and TDI normoxic trimix. I met the prerequisites by being alive and warm, but that's completely another story. The real prerequisites are AN/DP. Yes, some instructors will want to sell you recreational trimix, intro to tech, AN, DP, etc. so they can charge you a grand for each course.

Remember, it isn't the agency, it's the instructor. If you feel you don't need all of the other crap, find a AN/DP and then a normoxic course.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think you are right in observing a major difference between agencies in the amount of courses (and more) required to get you through this kind of training. You just mentioned normoxic trimix--check out the differences among agencies for getting through hypoxic trimix. With some agencies, someone with a normoxic trimix card needs one more class to finish all trimix training. For others, it can require 3 classes (and many required experience dives between those three classes) to accomplish the same thing. Since I have not heard of graduates of any particular program dropping like flies because of insufficient training, you have to wonder.

In my case, after having dived normoxic trimix for several years under the direction of the agency with which I was training, I looked ahead at the requirements ahead of me and tried to guess how many years it would take for me to complete trimix training. I decided it was not worth it, switched agencies, and finished my training that month.

 

[rongoodman]

I'm not getting the four courses. I had AN/DP from TDI and Normoxic from IANTD.

 

[tbone1004]

Not that many steps, but here is my thinking

all recreational courses should include nitrox FoC, we teach NAUI Nitrox Diver, doesn't take much any effort on the instructors side, and is no more dives for the students, so good to go.

next one would be AN/DP type course, these should really just be combined because they are pretty much useless independently. Comparable to taking an O2 cleaning course without VIP certification.

After that I'm torn on whether or not normoxic should be separate from hypoxic trimix because the procedures are largely the same but at the same time it's more of the depth/time of the hypoxic that makes it worthwhile of separating. Not in the discussion here though.

So that's 3 classes total to hit normoxic, only way to shorten is to combine an/dp/normoxic into one class but it would be a week long and I'm not entirely sure that they should be combined as decompression procedures with o2 really need to be figured out before you get into multiple decompression bottles. The actual decompression is something that needs to be eased into, so I think the 3 classes are OK.