Tech1 vs Normoxic trimix

[ginti]

Tech1 Completed

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[sea_ledford]

I thing gue uses average depth… tdi is max depth

Average depth of the whole dive?

I have a dive in my log with a max depth of 180ft, 26 minute bottom time. Average depth is 74.3 ft.
Or do you average out your bottom depths (ie spent 5 min at 190, 5 min at 150 so your average depth is 170)?

I don't understand how either one of those is even remotely useful for a certification limitation standard standpoint. What am I missing?

 

[PfcAJ]

Average depth of the whole dive?

I have a dive in my log with a max depth of 180ft, 26 minute bottom time. Average depth is 74.3 ft.
Or do you average out your bottom depths (ie spent 5 min at 190, 5 min at 150 so your average depth is 170)?

I don't understand how either one of those is even remotely useful for a certification limitation standard standpoint. What am I missing?

Avg depth of the bottom portion of the dive is what the deco is based on. Can’t help ya with how it relates to some certification limitation.

 

[LanceRiley]

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As this thread ended in 2022. So did my dive training. There i was with tdi extended range. I didnt bother with trimix. After all most people around me were an/dp or extended range. We just dived

Until my instructor invited me for dinner one time. December 2023. And asked me how i was…. I was happy diving what i have..

Then he said he can teach tech1 class now. He has classes scheduled every month for 2025.
He asked me if i was interested. 1st week of january schedule … and looking for a team mate….boom…

That night i registered for the 1st open class. Which was january 1st week spur of the moment . My team mate flew in. Introduced each other. Now i have a new friend . Love how gue connects people through classes. By the end of the class you would form a bond. Something you never forget.

Welll it was the usual 6days of having to explain why you acted this way and that way. But since we were fundy tech. No problem with bouyancy and kicks…or stopping. What i hadnt realize though was how my awareness has dropped since my last gue class.

On the 4th day… i was back to giving out the numbers like a computer. Every 5minute data and i just reminded myself how much i love the gue way…. The way you are taught how to think!

Forgot to mention how yummy trimix is to breathe

6days our team passed including the swim test. Instructor swam with us. In the sea with a half meter swell lovely!

As my country is a tropical one. We can get away with a wetsuit… but with 2 tech dives a day it gets a bit chilly.

Will be getting a drysuit very soon . Then another drysuit primer……

Before the year ends… i have shown my interest in gue ccr class. Currently mod1 with the jjccr but not practiced as i havent gotten my unit yet…. Its gona be a fun learning year for me…., with a flatter wallet

 

[LanceRiley]

Average depth of the whole dive?

I have a dive in my log with a max depth of 180ft, 26 minute bottom time. Average depth is 74.3 ft.
Or do you average out your bottom depths (ie spent 5 min at 190, 5 min at 150 so your average depth is 170)?

I don't understand how either one of those is even remotely useful for a certification limitation standard standpoint. What am I missing?

Your 5min segment is correct.

With regards to certification limitation or standards…. That really has nothing to do with it.

It is just how 2 agencies teach. Or set their limitations… for someone who has been taking both gue and tdi class…. Both have their merits and both of their physics actually match. I mean physics is physics.

Its just the way they do it. I dive with tdi trained tech divers too. Since their arent many. So we compromise. We plan. And get to an understanding how to do a dive..

Btw im the only 2nd tech1 in my island. Aside from instructors….

 

[sea_ledford]

Your 5min segment is correct.

With regards to certification limitation or standards…. That really has nothing to do with it.

Not at all trying to argue with diving methodologies, I am particularly surprised by the standards side of this. Tech 1 has a max depth of 170', but if you use that as an average, you can go deeper than the max depth. So I could bomb down to 215 for a couple minutes, then spend the rest of the dive at 130, and still be within my certification? Even if my max depth is outside of the appropriate depth range for the gas mix?

I understand culturally within GUE this isn't something that would happen, but it seems like it is allowable by standards. Just seems strangely loosey-goosey for a standard that will save (or sink) an instructor in a lawsuit.

Or is 170 the hard max depth, but deco is based on average depth of the bottom portion... so 5 min at 170, 5 min at 150, plan deco around 160.

 

[LanceRiley]

Not at all trying to argue with diving methodologies, I am particularly surprised by the standards side of this. Tech 1 has a max depth of 170', but if you use that as an average, you can go deeper than the max depth. So I could bomb down to 215 for a couple minutes, then spend the rest of the dive at 130, and still be within my certification? Even if my max depth is outside of the appropriate depth range for the gas mix?

I understand culturally within GUE this isn't something that would happen, but it seems like it is allowable by standards. Just seems strangely loosey-goosey for a standard that will save (or sink) an instructor in a lawsuit.

Or is 170 the hard max depth, but deco is based on average depth of the bottom portion... so 5 min at 170, 5 min at 150, plan deco around 160.

I did ask that question. 18/45. Is a gas suitsble for more than 51m. Basing on gue recommended limits on gas density, po2 and end. So why max at 51m?

Gue is an agency that interconnects its training from 1 course to the other. Ill probably learn that reason in tech2.

What you learn in every course gets carried forward to the next.

 

[PfcAJ]

Not at all trying to argue with diving methodologies, I am particularly surprised by the standards side of this. Tech 1 has a max depth of 170', but if you use that as an average, you can go deeper than the max depth. So I could bomb down to 215 for a couple minutes, then spend the rest of the dive at 130, and still be within my certification? Even if my max depth is outside of the appropriate depth range for the gas mix?

I understand culturally within GUE this isn't something that would happen, but it seems like it is allowable by standards. Just seems strangely loosey-goosey for a standard that will save (or sink) an instructor in a lawsuit.

Or is 170 the hard max depth, but deco is based on average depth of the bottom portion... so 5 min at 170, 5 min at 150, plan deco around 160.

This kind of diving requires a little maturity. Trying to skirt the spirit of the certification with mental gymnastics ain’t it.

 

[rjack321]

Not at all trying to argue with diving methodologies, I am particularly surprised by the standards side of this. Tech 1 has a max depth of 170', but if you use that as an average, you can go deeper than the max depth. So I could bomb down to 215 for a couple minutes, then spend the rest of the dive at 130, and still be within my certification? Even if my max depth is outside of the appropriate depth range for the gas mix?

I understand culturally within GUE this isn't something that would happen, but it seems like it is allowable by standards. Just seems strangely loosey-goosey for a standard that will save (or sink) an instructor in a lawsuit.

Or is 170 the hard max depth, but deco is based on average depth of the bottom portion... so 5 min at 170, 5 min at 150, plan deco around 160.

You can dip below 170ft sure. 18/45 is a T1 gas afterall even if the point of giving people that tool is more for high current situations than pushing right to the edge of its MOD.

The rest of your "plan" about averaging 170ft is super questionable since you still only have 1 deco gas at the T1 level. A 5 min dip to 200ft (the working MOD for 18/45), 5 mins at 180, 5 mins at 160 and 5 mins at 140 would be a really dumb and unrealistic T1 dive and maxes out your 1 deco gas at 30mins. No instructor would use that as either a T1 training or experience dive. What you do afterwards on your own time is not a liability for them but you're expected to be an adult and have some wisdom (or they won't certify you in the first place). Not just read a depth on the back of the card and think nothing else applies. Gas MODs and max deco time are still both physiological and "trained to" limits.

 

[sea_ledford]

would be a really dumb and unrealistic T1 dive and maxes out your 1 deco gas at 30mins. No instructor would use that as either a T1 training or experience dive.

. Gas MODs and max deco time are still both physiological and "trained to" limits.

This kind of diving requires a little maturity. Trying to skirt the spirit of the certification with mental gymnastics ain’t it.

Yes, I understand all of this. It's dumb, makes no sense, and would be the plan of a diver that shouldn't have been certified to begin with. Also not my point.

Maybe we are having different conversations at the same time. I am looking at this from an instructional standard standpoint that a lawyer would get hold of to extract money from the instructor after an incident. I'm not talking about operational use or best practices or good judgement. Once you are in court, the spirit of the standard is irrelevant, it's what the standard actually says that matters.

Having a variable max depth limit for training dives seems like a poor standard from a legal perspective, and I'm not seeing why there would be a variable standard. It doesn't provide any benefit. 170 is max, don't go deeper than 170. If a standard depends on everyone conducting themselves appropriately for it to be effective, it isn't a well written standard.

It reminds me of the student to instructor ratio that are set for ideal conditions, and it is up to the instructor to lower those ratios based on conditions. That is a terrible standard that puts all of the responsibility on the instructor, and after an incident hindsight bias will create a standards violation (Well I thought I was good with 4 divers in these conditions, but I only came back with three of them, so I guess not). But in that situation it is pretty much required unless every class has a 1:1 ratio. With a variable max depth it doesn't provide any benefit. I don't get it.