Tech1 vs Normoxic trimix

[LanceRiley]

I’d like to offer some thoughts, not in any particular order or structured in any particular way.

If you don’t have a fundies tech pass, Tech 1 isn’t even an option for you. Or maybe the other way to put it is, Tech 1 is even more expensive and an even longer route than your TDI option as you have to take fundies first and get a tech rating. Getting the tech rating isn’t always a foregone conclusion either.

Whether the GUE route provides value for the additional time and money investment is hard to say. It kind of depends on each person and their circumstance. Some things to keep in mind:
- as you know, a major benefit of GUE diving/divers is standardization. You can travel to a completely different country, not speak a language in common with GUE divers and still, under water, everyone is on the same page. If you do not have other GUE divers in your area and have no plans/interest in traveling to other areas to dive (such as cave country), that standardization is of little benefit. For me, it is very useful. I travelled to Canada, looked for GUE divers, and got in really good dives with like-minded divers. Insta buddies. The good kind. And the thing is, these folks know exactly what you are looking for when you arrive. Where do I get doubles? Where do I get 32 or 21/35?
- getting into the GUE “family” is kind of nice too. For example, if you want to go to the next step (tech 2 or maybe CCR), you can check around if there is a twosome looking for a third. And you know the other two will be trained almost exactly the way you were trained.
- On the flip side, GUE tend to be more conservative. Tech 1 gives you diving to 170 ft. You can use 30/30 (not very common) for shallower dives, 21/35 for light tech 1 dives or 18/45 for deeper tech 1 dives. Only one deco gas though. You use O2 or 50% depending on how profile. I know other agencies start you on two bottles with their an/dp classes.
- Oh, here is one pretty big difference that I picked up talking to fellow scubaboarders who got tech training from other agencies - dive planning and deco. In GUE, you can plan and execute your tech dive sans computer. You can use a bottom timer or a simple computer in gauge mode for the dive. In talking with other divers trained with other agencies, their dive planning and execution (how much deco they need to do) was all derived from a computer.

For me, I like the training from GUE but in my case, there are loads of benefits. Plus, there is a vibrant GUE community in my area. Good luck with your choice though.

Hi ,

this pandemic was very interesting for me. I found a GUE instructor and did my Fundies. I made Tech Pass. since Tech1 wasnt available at that time and with the pandemic i was hungry for more tech dives. i went with tdi which was readily available. I completely understand what you mean about GUE community. aside from my Team in fundies. there are 2 others… the instructor and another friend. I understand that GUE has standardization. in fact GUE teaching was ingrained deeply in me as a diver. I did the TDI course but kept as close to GUE ways. like all deco tanks on the left. Light always on left. keep right hand free. the trim etc.

but im also not biased towards the learning of others. we do deco dives 20/85 even in tdi class. except for the fact that TDI allows deep air . thats probably the only i didnt follow. or maybe i missed a few. aside from diving with my instructor i dive with others too who arent gue divers. yes you are right they dive accdg to their computers.

My point is combine all the knowledge to dive. we have to admit evry little thing helps when we’re down there. GF99, @+5, Delta +5 etc. did dives with other GF. modified the dives to fit both teachings.

right now there are places in my area that doesnt allow air dives deeper than 45m . wrecks are at 50-70m , which is reacheable in OC. although rebreather is pn my mind too but thats another story. maybe after a trimix class.

if tech1 teaches about trimix which i lack. but with already a lot of redundant skills gained in extended range. like 2 deco gas handling. or maybe there are some other skills specifically gue.

tdi trimix. will teach me how to use helium. get me to 65m costs less, teaches me a 3rd stage bottle.

more like adv or disadvantage

 

[ginti]

You received rather good ideas. Let me add two things.

The max depth of 170ft/51m with GUE tech 1 is an AVERAGE max depth (check with your instructor to be sure).

Second, GUE tec1 is intended to teach you how to spend time at depth. You'll spend roughly 20min at 51m, and roughly 30min at 40. So it isn't a touch and go. I have no idea of how the TDI course is designed, but maybe you want to check this point.

EDIT: T1 teaches one deco bottle.

 

[beester]

It really depends how much experience you have and if you want to stay in "the family" (some would call is religious sect). If you believe that GUE diving is for you it makes sense to keep in the curriculum, otherwise you'll block yourself from later courses (ccr or whatnot). They are stellar courses for sure.

Regarding a normoxic that teaches to 60+m and 2 stages... depends really on your experience. Going from a nitrox/fundies/adv nitrox level immediately to 60m+ 45' deco, 2 stages is a big step. I'm an IANTD instructor and IANTD allows to go from adv nitrox to normoxic+ which is exactly what you describe (even a bit deeper max depth). Most students who are coming of adv nitrox opt for the + (plus) course because it's more bang for buck right?! WRONG!

There is a big difference between 1 stage and 30 min deco and 2 stages and 15 min more. Your bang for buck is the inwater experience and training during the course, if you are stressed out of your hilt managing those 2 stages and doing the longer deco you are not learning anything and you'll end up with the feeling after the course that you are not ready for that kind of diving. Which is a shame. I guarantee you when you come out of T1 you are more than ready to dive the dives you've now trained for.

The above obviously can be ignored if you have a nice number of deeper staged dives under your belt already.

Cheers

B

 

[Ouvea]

Since you already perform decompression with two cylinders, I do not believe you will learn any new or meaningful decompression strategies through T1. The course introduces 21/35 and 18/45 as your bottom gas with 50% as your decompression gas.

Tech 1 is not about getting to 170ft. It's about getting from 170ft to the surface when SHTF. By the time you take T1, most of us have exposure to carrying a stage and switching as is not an issue. T1 focuses on the failures of your equipment and the management of those failures, while maintaining your mental composure. This does mean you will need to remain in trim and maintain a 3ft variance (1.5ft either way). You'll go from a single component through multiple cummulative failures, hence a minor inconvenience to a loss of considerable resources (gas, mask, dive computer, etc).

If your prior courses didn't have any work on failures, T1 will be useful and informative. You'll also discover how you react in emergency situations. That can be quite enlightening...

 

[LanceRiley]

You received rather good ideas. Let me add two things.

The max depth of 170ft/51m with GUE tech 1 is an AVERAGE max depth (check with your instructor to be sure).

Second, GUE tec1 is intended to teach you how to spend time at depth. You'll spend roughly 20min at 51m, and roughly 30min at 40. So it isn't a touch and go. I have no idea of how the TDI course is designed, but maybe you want to check this point.

EDIT: T1 teaches one deco bottle.

Yes i noticed… gue depth is average depth.
although… i cant be sure since i didnt take up the class

 

[LanceRiley]

A

It really depends how much experience you have and if you want to stay in "the family" (some would call is religious sect). If you believe that GUE diving is for you it makes sense to keep in the curriculum, otherwise you'll block yourself from later courses (ccr or whatnot). They are stellar courses for sure.

Regarding a normoxic that teaches to 60+m and 2 stages... depends really on your experience. Going from a nitrox/fundies/adv nitrox level immediately to 60m+ 45' deco, 2 stages is a big step. I'm an IANTD instructor and IANTD allows to go from adv nitrox to normoxic+ which is exactly what you describe (even a bit deeper max depth). Most students who are coming of adv nitrox opt for the + (plus) course because it's more bang for buck right?! WRONG!

There is a big difference between 1 stage and 30 min deco and 2 stages and 15 min more. Your bang for buck is the inwater experience and training during the course, if you are stressed out of your hilt managing those 2 stages and doing the longer deco you are not learning anything and you'll end up with the feeling after the course that you are not ready for that kind of diving. Which is a shame. I guarantee you when you come out of T1 you are more than ready to dive the dives you've now trained for.

The above obviously can be ignored if you have a nice number of deeper staged dives under your belt already.

Cheers

B

just to clarify…

did gue fundamentals. And dived the doubles for 3 months. 32% nitrox

took up tdi adv nitrox and deco procedures - this allows 45m 1 deco bottle.

after 6months tdi extended range - this is 2 deco bottles 55m max

yes im still fresh from 2stage deco diving. Ive done a few dives away from my home dive center. I will probably dive some more 3minths? 4months?

this post is in preparation for my next class… i like to plan ahead.

 

[LanceRiley]

Since you already perform decompression with two cylinders, I do not believe you will learn any new or meaningful decompression strategies through T1. The course introduces 21/35 and 18/45 as your bottom gas with 50% as your decompression gas.

Tech 1 is not about getting to 170ft. It's about getting from 170ft to the surface when SHTF. By the time you take T1, most of us have exposure to carrying a stage and switching as is not an issue. T1 focuses on the failures of your equipment and the management of those failures, while maintaining your mental composure. This does mean you will need to remain in trim and maintain a 3ft variance (1.5ft either way). You'll go from a single component through multiple cummulative failures, hence a minor inconvenience to a loss of considerable resources (gas, mask, dive computer, etc).

If your prior courses didn't have any work on failures, T1 will be useful and informative. You'll also discover how you react in emergency situations. That can be quite enlightening...

My adv nitrox and deco procedures did have a lot of failures… “stolen” or “lost” deco bottles. Yes my instructor is very good at stealing deco bottles off the dring! While giving failure drills. Even failure on deco bottles.

tdi extended range also had a lot of failure drills including ascent and stops without mask.
as well as shooting smb and doing gas switches while stowing the stage bottle.

a 90minute dive is never boring infact i was surprised that it was so quick.

and yes… gue standards on stops. Nope he didnt mention numbers just my stops are off A bit and to fix it. So a 21m stop is 20.5-21m


this is actually my concern with T1 …. The missing component in my diving right now is the helium part and gue specific stuffs. Otherwise Normoxic Trimix. This course still uses 21/35 and 18/45?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I've taken TDI (normoxic) trimix. One of my former students took T1. If you have the time to commit to six days of training straight, I'd suggest T1 for all the emergency skills that are included. I don't know what extend this is done as I dont remember all the details of what I was told. People who have taken it should describe.

As TDI allows for instructors to add performance/skills requirements, I would require the instructor to do so.

 

[LanceRiley]

Y

I've taken TDI (normoxic) trimix. One of my former students took T1. If you have the time to commit to six days of training straight, I'd suggest T1 for all the emergency skills that are included. I don't know what extend this is done as I dont remember all the details of what I was told. People who have taken it should describe.

As TDI allows for instructors to add performance/skills requirements, I would require the instructor to do so.

yes t1 requires 6days and fly in an instructor and the costs piles up maybe 4k usd depending on how many takes the class and instructor accomodation.

normoxic trimix is maybe 1.2k usd 5days + gas which im sourcing right now. So say 2k usd max? Or maybe even less. I will be trained with 3stage bottles

 

[rddvet]

I think it boils down to: Which instructor teaches the tdi course, are you already fundies certified, and if you have cost/time constraints.
Personally I would lean to tech 1 if you're already fundies tech passed. I think it is much easier to guarantee a good instructor and a class that will not change from instructor to instructor in the GUE world. TDI has great instructors, but they also have some meh instructors. There are people that teach the tdi course that I think will be as good as the gue course. But there's no guarantee. With gue the class should cover all the same stuff no matter who your instructor is. I've seen people come out of a tdi hypoxic course that still can't do what I consider a safe gas switch. That's not an agency issue, it's an instructor issue.