Are the Super Wings too much?

[Dan Gibson]

Nice try again. When I say 100 foot END, I am referring to narcotic depth not EAD. This includes O2, but I'm sure you will point out I am full of it on this as well. btw, 21/35 by the standards I use is good through 160. You choose to follow the way of the dinosaur when it comes to helium. Helium is bad good, not bad.

btw, I have included a quote for you from a good source about helium in stages.

"The real secret to multiple bottles is helium content. Try scootering with several bottles of nitrox and then several bottles of 30/30. The difference is amazing." A direct quote from Dave Sweetin. I think he fully understands how to carry multiple bottles while scootering at 300 ft. Or will you say he is full of it?

I may not have done a dive to 500 ft with multiple stages while scootering, but I have scootered with a stage. It gets easier as the gas is used since butt of the bottle starts to float in the slipstream as gas is used.

Your 21/35 normoxic mix tops out at about 190 feet perhaps you are narc'd at 100 feet but less helium would be better for the dive. Again, run some tables and see for yourself.

 

[MikeFerrara]

AAAARGHHHHH!!!!! You are a Freaking Joke! I am amazed anyone is willing to take your side. Sure He is good but you haven't clue why and definetly haven't run the tables to see the affects of He on Deco! If you spoke from experience, you'de have nothing to say!!

You are a poser. You need to stop missrepresenting your experience and stop giving advice! ... A 0.2 lb bouyancy difference - surely you realize, especially at depth, a few breaths would negate that value. Have you ever seen an empty tank with reg in the water? (hint: you would have to dive to experience this) they float top down. Regardless, you don't scooter and you don't know how to handle stages.

I hate to but in here like this but I know who Dan is. I run into him around the Missouri caves once in a while.

You wouldn't care to clue us in on your credentials would you?

The shocker is this!!!

Since you insist on giving helium examples in ignorance - high helium content = 70% !!! SEVENTY PERCENT!!! a 10/70 mix is good for about 500 ft. SOME SIXTEEN ATM (though reality is not your concern you should try to stick your initial normoxic example. You may be able to continue fooling people.) Sticking with the 10/70, it beckons the question...

While you are scootering along the Edmond Fitzgerald, with your poorly attached 10/70 stage, and a 55lb wing which happens to contain the equivalent of a quarter of the gas in your 80cuft stage, WHAT THE HECK IS IN YOUR DOUBLES!!!!! :11:
You can forget about slipstream any idea how much gas you will need? lets say your SAC is .6, that means you will need 0 cuft of gas at depth keeping in mind you don't dive.

Here's a little gas blending 101 for you.

When choosing a mix, try to aim for a nitrogen (narcotic) depth of 130ft (standard). Also try to keep P02 at 1.4

Your 21/35 normoxic mix tops out at about 190 feet perhaps you are narc'd at 100 feet but less helium would be better for the dive. Again, run some tables and see for yourself.

Actually some of us don't use 21/35 any deeper than about 150 and we start using 10/70 at about 250.

rather than use "best mix" we use the same gas for the same depth range...so...we have the schedules pretty much down pat. Gas mixing is easy too since all the mixes are just helium topped with 32%...for 21/35, 18/45, 15/55 and 10/70. That's especially handy if you bank 32% and use that for all shallower dives. Now there's some gas mixing 101 for you.

We keep the PPO2 down and save the O2 slam for decompression.

Keeping the END above 100 or so make for a nice memorable dive.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Nice post Mike. You definitely write your thoughts better than I do. I'm having trouble keeping up with all the nonsense in this thread. It makes it hard to concentrate on each individual comment.

btw, I'm trying to get Jody, Jay and Robert down to Cannonball again soon. Florida will have to wait till October.

Hey, I also have my continuous blender up and running. I can hit 32% within 0.2% all the time. Of course, if I'm off a little, I will have to carry some deco schedules to rework my deco

If you want to know, where to get a really cheap nitrox stick, I can give you that info. Jody put one together for his friend with a boat on the St. Lawrence for about $100.

I hate to but in here like this but I know who Dan is. I run into him around the Missouri caves once in a while.

You wouldn't care to clue us in on your credentials would you?

Actually some of us don't use 21/35 any deeper than about 150 and we start using 10/70 at about 250.

rather than use "best mix" we use the same gas for the same depth range...so...we have the schedules pretty much down pat. Gas mixing is easy too since all the mixes are just helium topped with 32%...for 21/35, 18/45, 15/55 and 10/70. That's especially handy if you bank 32% and use that for all shallower dives. Now there's some gas mixing 101 for you.

We keep the PPO2 down and save the O2 slam for decompression.

Keeping the END above 100 or so make for a nice memorable dive.

 

[rjchandler]

WOW -- someone used the "S" word. and their going to dive the Fitzgerald. This thread is going to get exciting.

 

[msandler]

All this coming from someone who admits to making a dive totally overweighted in a wetsuit. Doesn't that just about say all one needs to know about you.

Hey I ressemble that comment! Damn me for stating actual pertinent real world factual information that is based on true experience. the other comments especially yours, is heresay. I think the questions in this thread can be answered in relation to my experience on that dive (which was fantastic). I will always offer my experiences without concern of judgement, opinion or embarrasment. What I won't do is drop names, reference the experience and philosophies of others while having no direct personal experience to relate to.

By the way the dive (bouyancy) was no surprise, I repeat it in a heart beat. The stage tanks are left on deck during penetration. I think (memory) the bottom mix analyzed out to 19/28. I had nitrox 50/50 in one stage and 80/20 in the other.

You are still relying on you read. I love how all your comments are "WE". In other words, by referring to a collective group, you can get around having no person experience by riding on the shirt tails of others

By the way, you don't have to subscribe to P02 of 1.4 (you subscribe to whatever you read at the GUE site - not bad if you understood it), but "keeping" the P02 at 1.4 would require the constant P02 diving available to CCR diving. That's what is fantastic about a rebreather after all. In a normal dive the P02 is constantly changing with depth. A "max" of 1.4 will ensure you will avoid CNS for most dives. Don't worry about 19,000 penetrations, Jarrod and George don't dive with Strokes.

 

[-hh]

hh,

I have no dog in this fight, but I should point out that the capacity of a wing is set by the outer shell, not by the internal bladders. Even in a non redundant wing, the bladder will be ~20% larger than the outer shell. This prevents the inner bladder from stretching, the shell takes all the tension loads, the bladder is just the air tight element.

Good catch...I forgotten about that point (probably due to minimal interest in redundant bladder hardware

I must say I do find assuming the logic that "100lbs wings must have a legitimate use because people build and sell them"

I agree, but my concern is in part because we're always going to have some "PT Barnum" buyers that can keep "non-optimal" or even "snake oil" products going (take Windows for an example . IMO, the contemporary trend seems to be that people are moving into tech diving with fewer years of experience, not more, which would tend to exasperate this type of problem too. YMMV.


-hh

 

[jonnythan]

which would tend to exasperate this type of problem too. YMMV.

I hate doing this, but here goes:

ex·as·per·ate (g-zsp-rt)
1. To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly.

ex·ac·er·bate (g-zsr-bt)
To increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of.

 

[Dan Gibson]

You are to damn funny. Willing to repeat mistakes from the past, leaving bottles in OW. You know, some of us learn from others mistakes. We don't have to keep touching the hot stove to be sure it is hot. Maybe you need to use more helium so you can remember next time.

Hey I ressemble that comment! Damn me for stating actual pertinent real world factual information that is based on true experience. the other comments especially yours, is heresay. I think the questions in this thread can be answered in relation to my experience on that dive (which was fantastic). I will always offer my experiences without concern of judgement, opinion or embarrasment. What I won't do is drop names, reference the experience and philosophies of others while having no direct personal experience to relate to.

By the way the dive (bouyancy) was no surprise, I repeat it in a heart beat. The stage tanks are left on deck during penetration. I think (memory) the bottom mix analyzed out to 19/28. I had nitrox 50/50 in one stage and 80/20 in the other.

You are still relying on you read. I love how all your comments are "WE". In other words, by referring to a collective group, you can get around having no person experience by riding on the shirt tails of others

By the way, you don't have to subscribe to P02 of 1.4 (you subscribe to whatever you read at the GUE site - not bad if you understood it), but "keeping" the P02 at 1.4 would require the constant P02 diving available to CCR diving. That's what is fantastic about a rebreather after all. In a normal dive the P02 is constantly changing with depth. A "max" of 1.4 will ensure you will avoid CNS for most dives. Don't worry about 19,000 penetrations, Jarrod and George don't dive with Strokes.

 

[WJL]

I still like the theory that msandler is a sock puppet for novadiver.

 

[jonnythan]

I'm not sure novadiver is smart enough for that