Are resort DM's really that reckless?

[SkipperJohn]

There is probably no generic rule you can set which is why this is so hotly contested. The DM & the agency has to take some responsibility in some cases.
I did my 4 OW dives at a resort. As far as I knew I was there to be tested and it was my job to follow instructions. Period. My head was so full of all the stuff I learned in my intensive 3 days of book training & 1 day in the pool (yes, intensive was said tongue-in-cheek) Only when logging my dives, or trying to, did I realize how much I forgot to do and simply relied on the DM. For instance, I had no clue how long we were down on any of the dives, or what my SI was, I just followed instructions and forgot to check my watch (solved this, bought a computer )
Another point, the DM was my buddy. At one point on my second dive he swam us though a covered portion of the wreck we were diving. I was nervous as hell. I read and understood the dangers of diving with an obstruction overhead & one had to be trained to do so (& I wasn't) but here were my choices... 1- go with my gut and stay... finding myself alone 80 feet down. or 2- follow closely behind. I followed and mentioned it to him once we surfaced, he said: "I know, but you demonstrated good skills and I knew you would make it OK". Well, he was right... but...

You just beat me to it! I am a "brand new" diver and have no clue on how to choose a qualified DM while traveling abroad...

DD, this is how I handled it, I asked here and at my lds. I was lucky, everyone all had the same answer. Then I went on a forum for the island where I dove and there again I got great feedback for the outfit I used.
& yes, it was the same place that dove me through the wreck.

 

[seaducer]

So you would have no problem with a boat full of OW divers hovering at 60' where they are comfortable and the DM at 170' doing a technical dive "showing them the site"? I know this is a stretch but I think it is ridiculous to absolve every ounce of responsibility from the dive master (the one that is getting paid and I care not how much or little) who by definition is a professional (because they are getting paid).

No, not at all. As certified divers the group should be able to conduct that dive themselves. Remember upon completion of the OW class they are considered compitent enough to dive unsupervised. (whether they truely are or not is a differnt thread). And also, don't make the mistake the all DM's have the same responsibility. A DM helping students in a class or herding students on their OW checkouts ARE responsible to make sure the students are safe and that the dives are well within limits of depth and time. But a DM who is guiding a group of already certified divers on a dive has much less repsonsibilty. It is a different job with different expectations.

How is the dive master doing this when they are leading the group through an undisclosed (during the briefing) swim though that a diver is not certified for (overhead environment) and thus does not go through. Say the swim through takes a turn that the outside diver is not aware of and all of the sudden they are separated and assuming they will meet at the end. Should the DM have all of the responsility? Absolutely not. But to absolve all responsibility from the DM is just ludicrous IMHO

In this case, the DM should have briefed the swim through prior to getting wet. Never-the-less, the diver in question is not suddenly rendered unable to make an ascent, is he not? What are the guidelines for seperation? If the diver is not comfortable solo, he should surface. If he can't do that safely then it is not the DM's fault, blame falls to the intstructor who certified him, or in the case of skill neglect the diver himself.

 

[wreckchick]

An OW card that says "5 or more logged dives" is a clue.

Terry

... or more. There's the kicker right there.

R

 

[seaducer]

An OW card that says "5 or more logged dives" is a clue.

Terry

I am not sure what you mean? My card doesn't say anything about how many dives I have completed.

Show your card, sign here. Sometimes they ask for a logbook, but what if you don't keep one? Or if you padded the numbers? Or borrowed someone elses?

 

[ScubaSteve]

<insert dog chasing tail here>

This world is going to pot when trite like I am reading here gets posted and argued....just stupid. You guys go ahead and do what you will. I will ensure any of my loved ones stay away from you....after all I want them to return safely.

 

[B.L. Justice]

I don't have the depth of experience of many here but I have been on a few guided resort dives. In the dozen or so I have done, I have only had one dive where the DM scared me. I have an UW photo of the DM using a mask with a broken strap and with his tank bobbing behind him because it isn't attached to his BC :shocked2:. He sent me and my buddy to the anchor (not the anchor line, I asked) then he had some of the group meet him at the anchor line and the rest meet him at the stern. By the time he gathered the group and came down to us, I was miffed. When I saw the condition of his equipment I figured that we were on our own and that is exactly how my buddy and I finished the dive. We got back to the cruise ship (who had booked the dive) and told them about the experience and they refunded the fees. That made me think that they had heard the story before.

Someone said something to the effect that you have to make your own decisions based on your abilities and that is exactly right from my perspective.

 

[wreckchick]

I am not sure what you mean? My card doesn't say anything about how many dives I have completed.

Show your card, sign here. Sometimes they ask for a logbook, but what if you don't keep one? Or if you padded the numbers? Or borrowed someone elses?

SSI OW cards are issued with a "5 or more logged dives" thing on them. You can upgrade the cards to reflect more dives and when you complete additional training they are upgraded as well.

R

 

[wreckchick]

<insert dog chasing tail here>

This world is going to pot when trite like I am reading here gets posted and argued....just stupid. You guys go ahead and do what you will. I will ensure any of my loved ones stay away from you....after all I want them to return safely.

In my experience, the vast majority of dives in resort destinations are led by competent divemasters and have competent divers as guests. It is the few rare examples of either being poor that make the news.

Everyone in the industry has stories, and divers that have done a lot of guided dives probably have them too. It's not that I think anyone participating in this thread is fundamentally unsafe or that the practice of guiding dives should be eschewed but it is always helpful to have as much information about the guide(operator) and the diver as possible to ensure that the dives are as safe and, more to the point, FUN for everyone involved.

R

 

[ScubaSteve]

In my experience, the vast majority of dives in resort destinations are led by competent divemasters and have competent divers as guests. It is the few rare examples of either being poor that make the news.

Everyone in the industry has stories, and divers that have done a lot of guided dives probably have them too. It's not that I think anyone participating in this thread is fundamentally unsafe or that the practice of guiding dives should be eschewed but it is always helpful to have as much information about the guide(operator) and the diver as possible to ensure that the dives are as safe and, more to the point, FUN for everyone involved.

R

Sorry Rachel, but I am of the opinion that any DM (on behalf of the Dive Operation) that makes it clear that they hold no responsibility for the safety of those following them, needs to be eschewed.

 

[Web Monkey]

I am not sure what you mean? My card doesn't say anything about how many dives I have completed.

That might be an SSI thing. My OW card said "5 or more logged dives" all the subsequent cards said something else.

Terry