Perhaps you should read my entire post rather than stopping where you obviously did. You would see simply by reading that I found this to be a great thread as well. A lot of good information came out. Also, if you read the post which I quoted you would see that the OP quoted another poster as saying Somebody got offended which is why I said that someone always will. That is life.
Well... as ya' clipped my bit (... the "take exception to"... line...) as an example of somebody who got offended... I'd like to clarify that I was not, actually, offended. *Annoyed*, a bit... *frustrated* a bit more... but not actually offended.
ScubaSteve001:
This goes out to a DM (and not a digital wannabe). What is taught in training for the DM certification? Is there any direction given or taught on how to lead dives? Is there anything at all that says to cater a dive to the weakest of the group or how to plan the dive with a group? Is there anything that states you should keep dives to the training level of your divers? Anything at all? I am not a DM and it is likely that most of the people on this thread are not. I am curious.
Well... that's an interesting question. I think my best answer would be... "Not really..."
Most of what is taught with regard to dive planning is basically a rehash of what you learn in OW. There is more on how to organize... how to watch for signs of stress... the basic mechanics of leading a dive... emergency proceedures... etc., etc...
But the problem with the concept of "how to lead a dive" is the same as how to "plan" a dive.. depends on the when, where, who and what's that are involved... not all OW divers are created the same... and when you have a mixed bag of skills and what may be challenging to one may be boring as heck to the next. Not all dives are the same... dive at the Elbow in the Keys one day and the water may be flat and calm... next day you could have a ripping current (or what might FEEL like a ripping current to somebody who has no experience with current...)... how do you plan for that??? If the diver has no idea what a 3 knot current feels like how are they to intelligently judge whether what sounds benign... is or isn't? ... and if the DIVER doesn't know... how is a DM to judge for them?
It's kinda' like roller-coasters... even the most *exciting* out there doesn't hold any particular fear-factor for me... it's a flippin' roller-coaster after all and little kids ride them... how scarry can that be??? HOWEVER... get somebody who has a bit of a phobia issue and... well... yea, I can see how they might truely be frightened. Now... does this make the coaster unsafe? Does this make the operater guilty of 'recklessness' for having it there? If you don't realize how scarry it is BEFORE you get on it is it the operator's fault???
There have been any number of references during this thread to divers "getting suprised" and then having to make hard decisions... the general thrust seems to be that the DM shouldn't have put them in a position where either suprises occur... or decisions need to be made. I'd argue that BOTH of these concepts are inconsistant with the realities of diving. Any time you're outside of your local pool the probability of a 'suprise' occuring... or a hard decsion needing to be made increases... If diver's aren't clear on this concept then perhaps the fundimental education system needs to be re-examined.
AS String (I believe it was String) pointed out... there are not *rules*. ... just guidelines... your cert card isn't a license ... its a certification... a testimate that you've had a certain level of training... I *assume* (unless you tell me otherwise) that you have a certain level of proficiency at the skills that certification represents. There is nothing that stops you from entering a cave... diving to absurd depths... doing night dives without ever having taken a class... doing unprepared wreck penetrations... etc., etc. except your own risk tolerance and willingness to push... or not push... the boundaries.
Dive OPs won't give you an air fill without a cert card... but that's a liability issue on their part... nothing stops YOU from buying a compressor and assuming your OWN liability...
There are NO Scuba cops... and when there are no cops (who generally are there to bust us for doing what we know was wrong to do in the first place...but thought we could get away with...)... policiing is 'self-policing'...
As noted before... YOU plan YOUR dive... and YOU dive YOUR plan. If you can't get enough info to make you informed about a dive... don't dive... period. I don't care how much you paid... or didn't pay... it isn't worth the risk... it isn't the DM's responsibility to make these decisions for you even if we did have the capacity.
Bottom line... if you don't feel competent about a dive... don't go.
If you don't KNOW enough to make the determination about your competency... don't go... If the dive op won't give you enough information about a site for you to make a judgement... don't go... If you have a problem during a dive... aborting a dive is always an option... (personally I don't see any difference between a hardware failure and an *environmental failure*... ie, current too strong... depth too deep... sudden cave appearance... unavoidable wreck penetration... just not feeling well... etc.... if things are wrong then things are WRONG... abort the dive and start over when things are right...).
Most of all... understand that, at all times, YOU are always in control of YOUR dive... not the DM... not the Dive Op... not King Neptune... you and ONLY you. The scarriest thing about this thread (to me)... is the number of people that assume that the DM is there to do their thinking for them... or to be responsible for them... and do so without realizing the risks fundimentally inherent with kind of thinking. (... and, until you're certified to use that finger... I wouldn't go wagging it around too much... fishie might think it's a worm and bite it off...
)
I'm not trying to be a harda$$... I'm trying to keep you alive...
