Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[NAUI Wowie]

A pony can be used to safely extend a dive.

I use my pony bottle to extend my dive in that I leave a much smaller reserve in my main tank often surfacing with less than 250 psi. Or, I use it to extend an unusually interesting dive in which case I will leave the normal reserve in my main tank as backup to the pony.

if thats how you use it then it better be an AL40 and you are using it as a stage bottle not a pony. Dont use an AL19 for that.

 

[SlugLife]

If a person thinks "oh, he is looking down upon divers who have that," it says more about that person than me.

Your lists say the most about you, just as my lists says the most about me.

- Yoke regulators are more likely than not to be on rental equipment - expect that something may go wrong. The same applies to obviously rental equipment that people are not familiar with. Usually these folks will need extra time.

That's quite the list. To remain somewhat on topic, it's quite telling that your list contains pony bottles, and yoke regulators.

I feel this thread's done.

Thankfully, you don't get to end this thread.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

If you’re going to beat a dead horse there’s no reason it can’t be a pony.

New topic split: "When is a pony considered a horse?"

When its hooked up to a stage


coach

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Issues with PONY cylinders…

• They’re frequently small cylinders with insufficient gas for the depth should things go really wrong
• They’re often poorly configured to deploy, thus test on every dive.
• Often there’s no visible SPG
• When doing the gas volume calculations they have inadequate gas for the depths they’re used

Arguably they’re better than nothing, but the diver must be familiar with using one such that a "boom" on the primary gas would be a simple and calm switch to the well-practiced PONY with no panicking.

ponys dont need an SPG if you have Air integrated computers. my main and my pony are both on my Perdix. and the new cheap Mares AI computers can have 3 tanks

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Just dive doubles, don't mess around with the stagy-pony-whatever.

not practical. unless diving within local driving distance

 

[SlugLife]

I would ignore almost all those things. I've seen my share of CF's and will look to more important things. Is the gear all new and matching brand(s). The general demeanor of the diver and the ease with which gear is assembled. If they have a spare air. If they take more than 60 seconds screwing with the computer. If their exposure suit is reasonably appropriate for the conditions. If their weighting looks reasonable. Anyone who mentions their certification level and particularly if they mention they are a DM or instructor.

This list makes a LOT more sense. They're things very relevant to the dive, and with which one can make some kind of logical assumption.

"All brand new gear?" They may be somewhat unfamiliar with their rig. I've been there, done that, and would also be fumbling with the gear a bit more.

"Spare Air?" The diver is unaware their "redundant air" would be almost useless, and probably hasn't gotten any advice or experience with it. (I'd probably have a chat with them if they seemed friendly enough and encourage them to get something bigger.)

A burst swivel is about as uncommon as a burst LP or HP hose or any other equipment failure. As long as all equipment is installed, inspected and maintained properly, really not likely . Also, a burst swivel does not require sharing air if the diver is experienced, trained, competent and equipped properly......thus the redundancy of a pony system.

Agreed. Having redundant air means such micro-failure points aren't much of a concern. So what if they fail 1/1000 dives (probably less)? I'd probably still be able to use that tank to surface, plus have my pony tank to also surface.

Back mounted pony frees up your front/side for camera or hunting gear.

While I love SM (and SM-pony), you are correct it does take up some real-estate, that might be used for a camera and hunting-gear.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

I disagree. I dive often in Philippines and Mexico. Their equipment in many places can be subpar to say the least. I ALWAYs bring a pony and my own reg and dive computer. and my own wetsuit as i got a crazy black rash on much of the lower part of my body with their wetsuit in Cabo. The doc was shocked. Looked like black mold all over lol.

Ponys do NOT compensate for lack of skill generally. That seems kind of elitist in general. No offense to you thats most of us but a pony is pure and simple a break glass in case of emergency which can be someone elses emergency. If I see a panicked diver im not gonna hand them my second. but i will hand them the end of my pony from distance

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Here is a better question: Are there any other approaches that will get divers to the surface safely in case of emergency?

While there is nothing dangerous about a pony bottle per se, people may subconsciously cut corners when incorporating pony bottles in dive gear. Do you actually know what bottle size you need for a specific dive? Do you practice emergency drills to ensure that you're using valves? Do you know the type of failures that pony bottles will actually solve? Are there any other ways of dealing with those failures?

Yes, buddy separation occurs and, again, it is a skills problem. Many dive incidents begin prior to divers entering water. Poor dive planning, bad gear, lack of proper team planning, and so on.

The point is - think about the alternatives, problems, and solutions before you start strapping extra gear. In many cases, thinking, practice, and team work will benefit you more than an extra 40cf.

Wow....buddy separation isnt a skills problem. Its a jerk problem normally. Ive done liveaboards where the insta buddy wants to sprint full speed the entire dive fast kicking like a fool. Ive done local Monterey CA dives where the visibility is literally just 5 or 6 feet while using flashlights at the bottom at 60 feet and I am leading two other divers as I was better at navigation and had a really large torch/light. I was turning around and checking them sideways every 30 to 45 seconds to not lose them. They then just randomly decided to surface and go back to the dive boat without telling me. They shot straight up and left me.

Buddy separation is NOT a skills problem at all normally. As stated its a jerk problem or its a negligent diver taking pics and videoing. moving quickly away to catch something they just saw.

Things happen. be prepared. but most of what you have stated on multiple replies is not a skills problem at all when referencing oneself.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

It is a slow day in Mr V's land, so I'll bite.

Dealing with entanglement is a skill. Instead of saying "I need extra air in case there is an entanglement" say "I need to figure out how to avoid being entangled."

First, you should avoid any entanglement by not diving beyond your skill level, e.g., do not dive wrecks/caves unless you're certified. However, it is still possible to come across a fishing line or something else. In that case, it is up to you. You can choose not to go where there entanglement is possible.

Second, if you must cross a line, do it over the line and not under it. If you get entangled, you should make one attempt to free yourself and then signal your buddy. A diver is more likely to make entanglement worse if the diver continues fight the entanglement. Cave and wreck divers practice this skill and it is better to experience the scenario in practice than "understand it" via a forum post.

Third, let's look at an entanglement scenario at 100ft. How long do you think your 40cf bottle will last you when you are fighting for you life? I'll let you work out the math but will say that those few minutes will be the longest minutes of your life.

So back to the original question in the thread: are pony bottle dangerous? No, they're not but they may lead some divers astray. If your dive plans raise concerns about redundancy and dealing with emergencies, get sidemount/double training, learn how to dive in wrecks. And no matter what you do, dive conservatively. Finally, look at the incident statistics. Equipment failure is not on top of the list.

what percentage of dives are done sidemount doubles? Most of us do trips. Taking airplanes to get there..... No where on this thread is anyone talking about using ponys for tech dives or doubles diving. You are using several strawman arguments throughout this thread and assuming most people cut corners. Both of those assumptions can lead to people calling you out for innacurate statements that are accurate in small percentages. People that carry pony tanks are FAR FAR more likely to be careful and skilled than your normal bumkin diver that knows nothing and dives an AL80 on a dive into wrecks lets say. Happens every day in philippines by the way.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What happened to dive and let dive?
Are the majority of divers on basic dive boats this judgmental!?
Crap man!

…somebody chatty is now a nervous wreck and an accident waiting to happen..lol
Maybe they’re just excited to be there and are perfectly good divers. I my experience it’s the divers that are abnormally quiet that are the ones that are nervous.