Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[NAUI Wowie]

I might try renting one next time I burn a whole week.

I take my 19cf pony on every airplane to every country. unscrew the top so it is open. Never had a problem. The dive centers reattach and fill at destinations in P.I. , Mexico, etc

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Back mounted pony frees up your front/side for camera or hunting gear. A BM pony is for you and your only. Piss Off Not Yours. If a buddy needs air they get your back gas and you go to your octo until you reach the point in back gas pressure where you need to go to your pony and they stay on back gas. Number one goal is you get up alive with your buddy. If you run out of your pony because you went to that first while your buddy is on your back gas then you're SOL.

I see your point however I use a camera, dont underwater hunt but would. The front slung pony is attached top and bottom to your bcd or backplate close. I can take it off and hand it or not but it is about as close or tight as backmounted but I can unclip it. Potatoes potahtoes

 

[SlugLife]

and unlike other posters saying a spare air 3oz is dangerous. Wrong. its better than nothing when you take your last breath off your main tank. a 3oz can help someone do an emergency ascent without dying.

Strongly agreed with the rest of your post, and mostly agree with this. The 3cu could be enough to aid in what's effectively assisted-CESA. If I absolutely had nothing else available, but a 3cu, I'd take it. I'd also be FAR more cautious, if that's all I had.

The part where it becomes dangerous, is if the diver thinks the spare-air offers them far more redundancy than it actually provides. The diver might be willing to push more limits, or in an OOA might fail to treat it as an assisted-CESA. A diver with a spare-air suggests they may be unaware of those limits or alternatives, because for a similar amount of time and money you could acquire a "real" pony bottle and regs.

If I saw a diver with one, I'd probably check to see if they were aware of those limitations or the alternatives, because I too was that diver for a (thankfully) very short time. A quick conversation would reveal whether they're using it for assisted-CESA, simply don't have anything else, or perhaps they really could use some knowledge, tips, and advice. The fact that someone went out of their way to get and carry a spare-air is a good sign. Unfortunately, dive-agencies tell beginner-to-intermediate divers absolutely nothing about redundant air, leaving them to figure it out on their own.

The "wrong" advice of course would be to tell them "don't use a pony," when I could have taken those few seconds or minutes to point them towards an AL19 or similar.

Wow....buddy separation isnt a skills problem. Its a jerk problem normally....

Good points. Especially as a mostly solo diver, if my buddy is insistent on swimming off, doing something dangerous, or diving in a completely incompatible way, I'm not going to chase after them or baby-sit them.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Strongly agreed with the rest of your post, and mostly agree with this. The 3cu could be enough to aid in what's effectively assisted-CESA. If I absolutely had nothing else available, but a 3cu, I'd take it. I'd also be FAR more cautious, if that's all I had.

The part where it becomes dangerous, is if the diver thinks the spare-air offers them far more redundancy than it actually provides. The diver might be willing to push more limits, or in an OOA might fail to treat it as an assisted-CESA. A diver with a spare-air suggests they may be unaware of those limits, because for a similar amount of time and money you could acquire a "real" pony bottle and regs.

If I saw a diver with one, I'd probably check to see if they were aware of those limitations or the alternatives, because I too was that diver for a (thankfully) very short time. A quick conversation would reveal whether they're using it for assisted-CESA, simply don't have anything else, or perhaps they really could use some knowledge, tips, and advice. The fact that someone went out of their way to get and carry a spare-air is a good sign. Unfortunately, dive-agencies tell beginner-to-intermediate divers absolutely nothing about redundant air, leaving them to figure it out on their own.

The "wrong" advice of course would be to tell them "don't use a pony," when I could have taken those few seconds or minutes to point them towards an AL19 or similar.

Good points. Especially as a mostly solo diver, if my buddy is insistent on swimming off, doing something dangerous, or diving in a completely incompatible way, I'm not going to chase after them or baby-sit them.

100% Agree with all you said. Again the 3oz is only better than nothing at all if doing a CESA, for sure that was my meaning. And pre dive id definitely be doing my french bulldogs side eye at that 3oz lol

 

[FishWatcher747]

Good points. Especially as a mostly solo diver, if my buddy is insistent on swimming off, doing something dangerous, or diving in a completely incompatible way, I'm not going to chase after them or baby-sit them.

Totally agree with this. If an instabuddy wants to take off, I guess I'm not the ideal buddy. My job as instabuddy is not to chase you. I'm diving redundant so it has now turned into one of my many solo dives.

 

[34109411]

I don't even think my average buddy can switch to air2 (ick) and primary donate.

I have witnessed air hogs swim past there own buddy, and 2 other divers, to get the DM's octo. Lol.

 

[34109411]

View attachment 816981

 

[FishWatcher747]

A full 19cf holds about the same amount of gas that is typically left as a reserve in the main tank and therefore is perfectly suited to replace that reserve especially since I leave at least 200 psi in the main tank at the end of a dive

There is nothing wrong with diving this way but your smaller tank is not a Pony. You are diving doubles with a large tank and a small tank. Terminology matters.

 

[SlugLife]

A full 19cf holds about the same amount of gas that is typically left as a reserve in the main tank and therefore is perfectly suited to replace that reserve especially since I leave at least 200 psi in the main tank at the end of a dive.

There is nothing wrong with diving this way but your smaller tank is not a Pony. You are diving doubles with a large tank and a small tank. Terminology matters.

It's important to use this consistent terminology with pony bottles (and not-pony bottles), because concepts for pony bottles have many assumptions built in. There are many terms one can use for the dive-extender, including a slung-bottle, redundant air, doubles, independent doubles, etc. Pony bottle reverse to how it's used.

An advantage of a pony-bottle, is the simplicity. "I know this 19cu pony bottle is always (mostly) full, and can handle emergencies for me up to 100ft." There isn't much guessing, or room for error, and it's basically always available and always full. When people give advice for pony-bottles, the assumption is that advice applies to pony-bottles, and not dive-extenders.

For example, if someone asks "what size of pony do I need at 100ft" but then starts using that to extend their dives at 100ft, they asked the wrong question and received non-applicable answers, and their redundant air is no longer as useful. However, if you want to extend a dive and also have redundancy, then we're basically talking about gas planning, a larger tank, and making sure both tanks have enough of a reserve to safely surface.

Of course, once one knows what size of "pony" they need at a given depth, it also makes it somewhat easy to figure out how much of an larger tank you could use as a dive-extender. For example, if you need a 19cu pony at 100ft, then you could use about half of an 40cu for dive-extending at 100ft.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It's important to use this consistent terminology with pony bottles (and not-pony bottles), because concepts for pony bottles have many assumptions built in. There are many terms one can use for the dive-extender, including a slung-bottle, redundant air, doubles, independent doubles, etc. Pony bottle reverse to how it's used.

An advantage of a pony-bottle, is the simplicity. "I know this 19cu pony bottle is always (mostly) full, and can handle emergencies for me up to 100ft." There isn't much guessing, or room for error, and it's basically always available and always full. When people give advice for pony-bottles, the assumption is that advice applies to pony-bottles, and not dive-extenders.

For example, if someone asks "what size of pony do I need at 100ft" but then starts using that to extend their dives at 100ft, they asked the wrong question and received non-applicable answers, and their redundant air is no longer as useful. However, if you want to extend a dive and also have redundancy, then we're basically talking about gas planning, a larger tank, and making sure both tanks have enough of a reserve to safely surface.

Of course, once one knows what size of "pony" they need at a given depth, it also makes it somewhat easy to figure out how much of an larger tank you could use as a dive-extender. For example, if you need a 19cu pony at 100ft, then you could use about half of an 40cu for dive-extending at 100ft.

As far as I’m concerned, to extend a dive you either need a bigger tank or a set of doubles, simple as that. You need to plan your depth and time with your primary gas only, which may include a reserve as a cushion.
You do not use a pony bottle to extend a dive. It is there as an emergency back up only and is not to be used casually for any purpose other than as a last resort bail out. If that means never using it once your entire diving career then you have a perfect score.