Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[NAUI Wowie]

It is a slow day in Mr V's land, so I'll bite.

Dealing with entanglement is a skill. Instead of saying "I need extra air in case there is an entanglement" say "I need to figure out how to avoid being entangled."

First, you should avoid any entanglement by not diving beyond your skill level, e.g., do not dive wrecks/caves unless you're certified. However, it is still possible to come across a fishing line or something else. In that case, it is up to you. You can choose not to go where there entanglement is possible.

Second, if you must cross a line, do it over the line and not under it. If you get entangled, you should make one attempt to free yourself and then signal your buddy. A diver is more likely to make entanglement worse if the diver continues fight the entanglement. Cave and wreck divers practice this skill and it is better to experience the scenario in practice than "understand it" via a forum post.

Third, let's look at an entanglement scenario at 100ft. How long do you think your 40cf bottle will last you when you are fighting for you life? I'll let you work out the math but will say that those few minutes will be the longest minutes of your life.

So back to the original question in the thread: are pony bottle dangerous? No, they're not but they may lead some divers astray. If your dive plans raise concerns about redundancy and dealing with emergencies, get sidemount/double training, learn how to dive in wrecks. And no matter what you do, dive conservatively. Finally, look at the incident statistics. Equipment failure is not on top of the list.

what percentage of dives are done sidemount doubles? Most of us do trips. Taking airplanes to get there..... No where on this thread is anyone talking about using ponys for tech dives or doubles diving. You are using several strawman arguments throughout this thread and assuming most people cut corners. Both of those assumptions can lead to people calling you out for innacurate statements that are accurate in small percentages. People that carry pony tanks are FAR FAR more likely to be careful and skilled than your normal bumkin diver that knows nothing and dives an AL80 on a dive into wrecks lets say. Happens every day in philippines by the way.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What happened to dive and let dive?
Are the majority of divers on basic dive boats this judgmental!?
Crap man!

…somebody chatty is now a nervous wreck and an accident waiting to happen..lol
Maybe they’re just excited to be there and are perfectly good divers. I my experience it’s the divers that are abnormally quiet that are the ones that are nervous.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

I might try renting one next time I burn a whole week.

I take my 19cf pony on every airplane to every country. unscrew the top so it is open. Never had a problem. The dive centers reattach and fill at destinations in P.I. , Mexico, etc

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Back mounted pony frees up your front/side for camera or hunting gear. A BM pony is for you and your only. Piss Off Not Yours. If a buddy needs air they get your back gas and you go to your octo until you reach the point in back gas pressure where you need to go to your pony and they stay on back gas. Number one goal is you get up alive with your buddy. If you run out of your pony because you went to that first while your buddy is on your back gas then you're SOL.

I see your point however I use a camera, dont underwater hunt but would. The front slung pony is attached top and bottom to your bcd or backplate close. I can take it off and hand it or not but it is about as close or tight as backmounted but I can unclip it. Potatoes potahtoes

 

[SlugLife]

and unlike other posters saying a spare air 3oz is dangerous. Wrong. its better than nothing when you take your last breath off your main tank. a 3oz can help someone do an emergency ascent without dying.

Strongly agreed with the rest of your post, and mostly agree with this. The 3cu could be enough to aid in what's effectively assisted-CESA. If I absolutely had nothing else available, but a 3cu, I'd take it. I'd also be FAR more cautious, if that's all I had.

The part where it becomes dangerous, is if the diver thinks the spare-air offers them far more redundancy than it actually provides. The diver might be willing to push more limits, or in an OOA might fail to treat it as an assisted-CESA. A diver with a spare-air suggests they may be unaware of those limits or alternatives, because for a similar amount of time and money you could acquire a "real" pony bottle and regs.

If I saw a diver with one, I'd probably check to see if they were aware of those limitations or the alternatives, because I too was that diver for a (thankfully) very short time. A quick conversation would reveal whether they're using it for assisted-CESA, simply don't have anything else, or perhaps they really could use some knowledge, tips, and advice. The fact that someone went out of their way to get and carry a spare-air is a good sign. Unfortunately, dive-agencies tell beginner-to-intermediate divers absolutely nothing about redundant air, leaving them to figure it out on their own.

The "wrong" advice of course would be to tell them "don't use a pony," when I could have taken those few seconds or minutes to point them towards an AL19 or similar.

Wow....buddy separation isnt a skills problem. Its a jerk problem normally....

Good points. Especially as a mostly solo diver, if my buddy is insistent on swimming off, doing something dangerous, or diving in a completely incompatible way, I'm not going to chase after them or baby-sit them.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Strongly agreed with the rest of your post, and mostly agree with this. The 3cu could be enough to aid in what's effectively assisted-CESA. If I absolutely had nothing else available, but a 3cu, I'd take it. I'd also be FAR more cautious, if that's all I had.

The part where it becomes dangerous, is if the diver thinks the spare-air offers them far more redundancy than it actually provides. The diver might be willing to push more limits, or in an OOA might fail to treat it as an assisted-CESA. A diver with a spare-air suggests they may be unaware of those limits, because for a similar amount of time and money you could acquire a "real" pony bottle and regs.

If I saw a diver with one, I'd probably check to see if they were aware of those limitations or the alternatives, because I too was that diver for a (thankfully) very short time. A quick conversation would reveal whether they're using it for assisted-CESA, simply don't have anything else, or perhaps they really could use some knowledge, tips, and advice. The fact that someone went out of their way to get and carry a spare-air is a good sign. Unfortunately, dive-agencies tell beginner-to-intermediate divers absolutely nothing about redundant air, leaving them to figure it out on their own.

The "wrong" advice of course would be to tell them "don't use a pony," when I could have taken those few seconds or minutes to point them towards an AL19 or similar.

Good points. Especially as a mostly solo diver, if my buddy is insistent on swimming off, doing something dangerous, or diving in a completely incompatible way, I'm not going to chase after them or baby-sit them.

100% Agree with all you said. Again the 3oz is only better than nothing at all if doing a CESA, for sure that was my meaning. And pre dive id definitely be doing my french bulldogs side eye at that 3oz lol

 

[FishWatcher747]

Good points. Especially as a mostly solo diver, if my buddy is insistent on swimming off, doing something dangerous, or diving in a completely incompatible way, I'm not going to chase after them or baby-sit them.

Totally agree with this. If an instabuddy wants to take off, I guess I'm not the ideal buddy. My job as instabuddy is not to chase you. I'm diving redundant so it has now turned into one of my many solo dives.

 

[34109411]

I don't even think my average buddy can switch to air2 (ick) and primary donate.

I have witnessed air hogs swim past there own buddy, and 2 other divers, to get the DM's octo. Lol.

 

[34109411]

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[LI-er]

if thats how you use it then it better be an AL40 and you are using it as a stage bottle not a pony. Dont use an AL19 for that.

A full 19cf holds about the same amount of gas that is typically left as a reserve in the main tank and therefore is perfectly suited to replace that reserve especially since I leave at least 200 psi in the main tank at the end of a dive.