Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[Eric Sedletzky]

May I ask

So these regulating dudes regulate I wear an extra bottle when I dive alone with commercial operators
So since they have done that, I'll keep the peace, do that and take advantage by also adding some flair

15L steel bottle nitrox, trimix, 3L other steel bottle 50%, both cave filled, ocean dives

View attachment 817180

So not to garner attention or foreign analysers, the bottles aren't marked with any stickers, nitrox mod
So no one knows what mixtures I'm diving, or where, using this set up between 40metres and 0metres

Are there terms that describe this system, the bottles, or the system of diving!

I use the 50% on deco dives or on the way up on other dives when I feel like it

Thank you

I think your mixtures are yours and yours alone.
Somebody coming up to you begging for an unknown mix because they were too stupid to pay attention to their own supply needs to go back to diver kindergarten and figure it out.
Look, If you’re set up to solo and your mixes are your own mixes based on your own profile then don’t think that you have to cure the rest of the world of diving from their own idiocy, you don’t, you’re solo!
They are not your problem!

 

[Still Kicking]

I sure wish I could be so arrogant and perfect to not need a pony! Unfortunately, I am human, make mistakes, get narked, and many other reasons why I might benefit from having a pony. So, I will carry the pony, rather have and not need it then need it and not have it. Don't feed the trolls!

I am torn on this one - i lean toward the "better to have it...." end of the spectrum in life in general (over packing, over buying etc) but, in 30 years of diving, i have come to realize that less is generally more. Actually i have found that more is more -- more drag, more chances of equipment problems, more entanglement headaches in kelp, more cumbersome on land etc.

Instead, i dive with a larger primary tank (more reserve gas yet still relatively streamlined), well maintained gear (I am a tech) and conservative solo dives (i limit myself to NDLs at depths i can freedive to so a CESA bailout is not unreasonable, my SAC is good, and i keep a hawkeye on my SPG etc.)

At one shop where I worked, i remember when a new employee bought pretty much every single piece of equipment and doo-dad in the store and carried it on the basis of "i need this in case X happens..." He was the classic Christmas tree diver. I fight that urge all the time and he has always been a great reminder of why not to carry more than I reasonably need.

The problem is the definition of "reasonable." I don't have an issue with people who find a pony reasonable, especially for less conservative diving.

 

[SlugLife]

I think almost every diver, finds the pony bottle inconvenient and would prefer to leave it behind, if safety wasn't a concern. I have spare pony-bottles and regs, in several sizes, and nobody I dive with ever wants to borrow one.

A "Christmas tree" diver, or "spare air" diver who has no idea how it works, is a radically different analysis from someone who is at least somewhat informed and properly uses redundant air. It would be similar to considering SCUBA accidents by people with zero scuba-training, similar to those who had accidents while diving within their training level.

 

[Angelo Farina]

A pony tank becomes dangerous if it causes the diver to move his secondary reg from the main tank to the pony bottle, leaving the main tank with just one reg.
Doing so can result in the incapability of employing a large amount of gas stored in the main tank if the primary reg fails.
Using a pony tank should always be simply "incremental" to the standard setup, not a trade-off between the main tank and the auxiliary one.

 

[Still Kicking]

I think almost every diver, finds the pony bottle inconvenient and would prefer to leave it behind, if safety wasn't a concern. I have spare pony-bottles and regs, in several sizes, and nobody I dive with ever wants to borrow one.

A "Christmas tree" diver, or "spare air" diver who has no idea how it works, is a radically different analysis from someone who is at least somewhat informed and properly uses redundant air. It would be similar to considering SCUBA accidents by people with zero scuba-training, similar to those who had accidents while diving within their training level.

how many dives have you carried a pony and how many times have you needed it?

 

[Boarderguy]

how many dives have you carried a pony and how many times have you needed it?

200+, needed it once (buddy went low on air and we shared my back gas until we hit my planned switch pressure for my pony), used it quite a few times to drain it on the last dive of a trip or before a trip. Need an empty bottle to pull the valve and that's another 15-20 minutes under water (planned usage).

 

[Still Kicking]

200+, needed it once (buddy went low on air and we shared my back gas until we hit my planned switch pressure for my pony), used it quite a few times to drain it on the last dive of a trip or before a trip. Need an empty bottle to pull the valve and that's another 15-20 minutes under water (planned usage).

I am talking about NEEDING it.... lol

 

[Boarderguy]

I am talking about NEEDING it.... lol

I did need it. High current dive with overhead boat traffic on a scooter. Buddy had his reg free flow due to the current and went from 1500 to 300 psi in a few minutes. I passed my primary and then breathed from my air2 until I hit about 1000 psi (don't remember exactly right now), and then I went to my pony so he'd have my remaining 1k psi and I had a full pony. We finished the dive safely and expediently to get out of the channel, surfacing once we hit 10 fsw and about 30ft from shore. I detailed this specific incident last year on here if you wish to read more details on it.

I NEEDED my pony to ensure a safe return and to keep an incident from becoming an emergency. That's proper planning and usage of a pony.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I NEEDED a pony whenever I used it (30 times, perhaps), as it was providing the necessary redundancy which was required for those demanding dives.
A tool can be useful or even necessary without been actually employed.

 

[SlugLife]

how many dives have you carried a pony and how many times have you needed it?

When looking at dive accidents and incidents, typically it is never a single thing that goes wrong. I even heard something very similar recently around aviation safety on a podcast I was listening to. A "3 strikes rule," which is a good quick and simple way of explaining it. It's rarely ever a single thing that goes wrong, because a lot of scuba equipment and procedures are designed around redundancy. Instead, it's a series of things going wrong, perhaps 1-2 under control of the diver, and another 1-2 out of the diver's control.

For example, first the diver was tired, then the diver got cramps, then the diver had buoyancy issues, then the diver passed up multiple opportunities and suggestions to turn the dive, and then the diver finally had another buoyancy issue, shot to the surface and died. Or, divers have a minor equipment issue before dive but ignore it, decide to cave dive without training or proper equipment, get lost in cave, and drown.

Instead of 3 strikes, I like to think of it as "snake eyes," where if your dice all roll 1's you're dead. To improve your odds, you can add dice by adding redundancy, or increase sides by improving quality of that redundancy. The whole "never dive alone" mantra repeated by every dive agency over-and-over, is an example of that redundancy, and of course a better buddy would be an example of more reliable redundancy.

When it comes to life and death, and in SCUBA, we're never that far from it, you would hope you're never in a situation where you really need your redundancy. However, if you ever do need it, it may save you from death, severe injury, or a traumatic experience. Regardless of whether I'll ever "need" the pony bottle, it certainly is a stress reliever in that I don't have to worry about a large class of potential scuba issues.

----

Now to actually answer your question directly:

I have carried redundant air (sometimes a pony) on every dive since about July 2021, which is about 100 dives (not sure, I don't log/count). Around June 2021, I had an incident described here. Thankfully, I didn't "need" redundant air, because I had none with me, and the redundancy of the surface being about 30ft away was good enough. However, if that had happened on one of my few 60-120ft dives (I had several at the time), the risks would have been much greater.

Many divers treat their dive-buddy as a swimming pony bottle, and there is certainly no shortage of those stories.

I am talking about NEEDING it.... lol

I also know precisely what you're doing, and you do too, setting an unrealistically high bar. If divers "needed" pony-bottles more often, we'd probably have a LOT more dead divers. If someone needs redundant air, and doesn't have it, they end up dead or injured and wouldn't be able to answer.

As seen by other responses, people have actually needed redundant air / pony-bottle, or at least found it extremely useful.