Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[MyBuddy]

Maybe it should be called a bottle instead of a bottle. Nobody beats a dead , but they sure do .

You say “Nobody”, but I’m confident that someone has done it. There’s some weird people out there man.

 

[mr_v]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

 

[MidOH]

Maybe.

What if you don't trust your buddy? There's been a few times where a cesa started to look a little uncomfortable.

Car dives, shore dive, dives where I'm not beholden to a boats MO, I'd sure like a redundant solution.

 

[Boarderguy]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

What? Tell me you only dive with all black gear without saying all your gear is black...

A pony gives you a source a gas to be used in an emergency or an underwater incident prior to it becoming an emergency. Proper gas planning and e-drills have nothing to do with maintaining an additional source of 13-20 ft³ of gas.

Solo divers (myself) don't have a buddy. When we do buddy up we don't change our gear configuration and still have our pony because it's part of our e-plan.

I've had to donate my primary in a high current overhead situation (boat traffic) while on a scooter. My pony and backgas reserve kept us at the bottom where it was safe until we could surface near shore. THAT is the purpose of a pony and gas planning. Shịt happens.

 

[johndiver999]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

Why does the pony give a "false sense of security"? It is a completely independent and redundant system that has the capacity to get the diver to the surface with no compromises on ascent rate etc.

I bet there are way, way more instances where the buddy system "provides a false sense of security" compared to documented cases of the pony bottle failing to deliver the diver to the surface. We hear about problems with buddy separation all the time.

 

[lexvil]

A pony serves the same purpose even if you dive doubles.

 

[mr_v]

Why does the pony give a "false sense of security"? It is a completely independent and redundant system that has the capacity to get the diver to the surface with no compromises on ascent rate etc.

I bet there are way, way for instances where the buddy system "provides a false sense of security" compared to documented cases of the pony bottle failing to deliver the diver to the surface. We hear about problems with buddy separation all the time.

Here is a better question: Are there any other approaches that will get divers to the surface safely in case of emergency?

While there is nothing dangerous about a pony bottle per se, people may subconsciously cut corners when incorporating pony bottles in dive gear. Do you actually know what bottle size you need for a specific dive? Do you practice emergency drills to ensure that you're using valves? Do you know the type of failures that pony bottles will actually solve? Are there any other ways of dealing with those failures?

Yes, buddy separation occurs and, again, it is a skills problem. Many dive incidents begin prior to divers entering water. Poor dive planning, bad gear, lack of proper team planning, and so on.

The point is - think about the alternatives, problems, and solutions before you start strapping extra gear. In many cases, thinking, practice, and team work will benefit you more than an extra 40cf.

 

[mr_v]

What? Tell me you only dive with all black gear without saying all your gear is black...

You will be disappointed.

A pony gives you a source a gas to be used in an emergency or an underwater incident prior to it becoming an emergency. Proper gas planning and e-drills have nothing to do with maintaining an additional source of 13-20 ft³ of gas.

Proper gas planning prevents incidents before they become emergencies.

Solo divers (myself) don't have a buddy. When we do buddy up we don't change our gear configuration and still have our pony because it's part of our e-plan.

I've had to donate my primary in a high current overhead situation (boat traffic) while on a scooter. My pony and backgas reserve kept us at the bottom where it was safe until we could surface near shore. THAT is the purpose of a pony and gas planning. Shịt happens.

I solo dive, too. Here is the question I'd ask based on the example you've presented: what is the worst case exist scenario and how much gas do I need to take with me to make it happen.

 

[johndiver999]

Here is a better question: Are there any other approaches that will get divers to the surface safely in case of emergency?

While there is nothing dangerous about a pony bottle per se, people may subconsciously cut corners when incorporating pony bottles in dive gear. Do you actually know what bottle size you need for a specific dive? Do you practice emergency drills to ensure that you're using valves? Do you know the type of failures that pony bottles will actually solve? Are there any other ways of dealing with those failures?

Yes, buddy separation occurs and, again, it is a skills problem. Many dive incidents begin prior to divers entering water. Poor dive planning, bad gear, lack of proper team planning, and so on.

The point is - think about the alternatives, problems, and solutions before you start strapping extra gear. In many cases, thinking, practice, and team work will benefit you more than an extra 40cf.

You sound absolutely silly. The pony works in ANY kind of failure - it does not matter why. You seem to want to argue that the best way to prevent accidents is to avoid accidents - no sheeet!

This week I screwed up. I was distracted and about 110 feet deep, I was wrestling with a lobster and getting pissed and probably breathing too hard. I knew I was close to the end of the dive; I put the lobster in the bag, grabbed the console, and felt the hose was limp. I was so pissed, I didn't even look at the pressure.

I pressed the inflate button and relaxed and did not kick and tried to slow my breathing. At around 60 feet or something, I took a peak at my computer, I had thought that I was approaching the nodeco limit but apparently failed to check my gauges frequently enough. So when I checked the computer, it said like 5-6 minutes of required deco.

So now I was really pissed at myself, not watching time or air pressure carefully. Perhaps I accidentally went a little deep at the end of the dive and moved out to around 115, which might have caused the computer to quickly spank me with some deco? I'm not super worried about going into a little deco, but I really hate being irresponsible and not being aware of it and making a conscious decision about it. I've not done something like this in the last several hundreds of dives, perhaps I am out of practice because I didn't dive for almost two weeks.

Did my normal deep stop at 50 to 40 feet for a minute or so and then made my way to 30 feet, all still sipping my air. I then decided I should be "smart" and confirm the pony is going to work before I run completely out, so I switch to the pony for the remainder of the deco and an extra minute or so - just to be super safe LOL.

Switched back to the primary on the surface and breathed it climbing out and until I dropped my tank on board. I ended up using about 1000 psi in a 13 cuft pony.

There is this week's example of why I wear a pony bottle. It helps unlucky divers and stupid ones. I was solo so there was no buddy to look to.

 

[SlugLife]

I've always viewed pony bottles as equipment focused on solving skills problems.

I view a redundant independent air supply (often "pony bottle") as a sort of life-insurance or PTSD insurance. Whatever goes wrong on a dive, I have a backup plan. That "goes wrong" could be all kinds of things, including being a idiot in some form (distractions, planning, etc), but also entanglements, equipment failures, and various other unanticipated emergencies.

Only some of that is a skills issue. You can reduce, but usually not eliminate some of the other risks. Even if it's a 1% chance I'll have a severe incident across the next 500 dives, I'd still rather have that redundant air with me. While I'd like to be confident in my ability to CESA, it might still be a very scary experience, and better hope I notice a problem quickly enough to start my ascent immediately.

You should always plan your dives, plan gas consumption, and practice emergency drills.

Do you plan your regulator hose blowing up?

If you're a rec diver, you must dive with a buddy who will be your first source of assistance shall you end up running out in emergency (e.g., a critical first stage failure). A pony bottle on a rec dive may give you a false sense of security or let you cut corners.

Unless you always dive with the same super-reliable buddy, or as part of a specialized team, it appears your dive-buddy is giving you a false sense of security. Your "swimming redundant air" has never swam off to look at a fish?

If you're a tech diver, you probably have doubles/sidemount/ccr and know how to stage, so the pony is not useful.

Sure, I don't need my pony when running regular sidemount. The goal is safety, which is enhanced by redundancy, and one way of achieving that is the pony-bottle. However, I also often don't need 2x AL-80 tanks for a 40 minute dive at 10-meters (30ft).

Lots of divers don't carry pony bottles, never have an incident, and never need one. However, among the divers that do die, or are critically injured, or survive but have a traumatic experience .... how many of them would have avoided that if they also had a pony bottle on them?