Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[SlugLife]

If a 19-40 CF bottle is considered a pony, then is a slung 80 CF tank considered a horse bottle as long as it’s used for bail out and not used as a “stage” or sidemount?

Only if you ride it.

Do Pony's and Stage Bottles, etc. require Hydro's and VIP's or are some of them just filled in the boat off of a spare full sized tank with a cheater hose? I watched a guy fill his Pony bottles from a full size tank and wondered when was the last time that tank had been looked inside of. Those are the ones that worry me.

In the US, the DOT mandates pressurized containers must be hydro'd every 5 years (unless it has a certain stamp).

The Visual Inspection is not legally mandated, but enforced by much of the scuba-industry, such as dive-shops.

I personally am more than happy to transfill my pony bottles, and I have the PSI/PCI certification which allows me to issue those annual stickers. Whether the random diver should be doing that is perhaps another topic, many visual-inspectors think the annual inspection is fairly unnecessary (and overpriced). I think having the redundant air outweighs risks of a well maintained pony bottle with expired VIP.

 

[Still Kicking]

I've seen a scenario where a pony gets drained during a dive (most likely a leaking reg) and once gas pressure drops below ambient, water flows back into the bottle. The diver transfills the bottle after the dive and doesn't think about having the bottle visually inspected.

To me, it makes sense to keep a bottle charged but turned off (and carried in such a way you can see a leaking reg and easily open the valve) and to inspect bottles regularly, even if you transfill them yourself.

 

[johndiver999]

I've seen a scenario where a pony gets drained during a dive (most likely a leaking reg) and once gas pressure drops below ambient, water flows back into the bottle. The diver transfills the bottle after the dive and doesn't think about having the bottle visually inspected.

To me, it makes sense to keep a bottle charged but turned off (and carried in such a way you can see a leaking reg and easily open the valve) and to inspect bottles regularly, even if you transfill them yourself.

This is pretty unlikely. Any diver who is transfilling a bottle will/should notice if the low bottle is empty. Frist of all, once the regulator is removed, they should open the valve to blow out any water before hooking the hose/yoke up.

Then before filling, I think it would be normal to turn the LOW bottle on first in order to check for a bad connection or air leak on the whip . It makes much more sense to check for air leaks with the low bottle rather than risk loss of gas in the HIGH bottle. That's what I always do anyway, so it would be another opportunity to note that the pony was empty.

I alway keep my pony on during a dive, and I have never had a bad leak.

Lastly, people that have enough gear and experience to be transfilling tanks, should have the smarts to crack the valve off once in a while and look into the (pony) tank if they are not paying for vip's.

 

[SlugLife]

I've seen a scenario where a pony gets drained during a dive (most likely a leaking reg) and once gas pressure drops below ambient, water flows back into the bottle. The diver transfills the bottle after the dive and doesn't think about having the bottle visually inspected.

To me, it makes sense to keep a bottle charged but turned off (and carried in such a way you can see a leaking reg and easily open the valve) and to inspect bottles regularly, even if you transfill them yourself.

If a person is "ignorant" (uninformed, undisciplined, etc) enough, to not recognize their pony-bottle was completely empty when it shouldn't be, and fill it anyway, I might also not trust that diver to be able to turn on a pony-bottle in the middle of an emergency. Further, this incompetent diver is liable to jump in the water with their regulators depressurized, which causes the regulators to flood, and not work properly when re-pressurized.

If we're talking a more informed diver, that diver would notice their pony-bottle was completely empty, and be aware of the possibility of water intrusion. Whether they left their bottle on during a dive would be a matter of personal preference, and dive configuration.

For the "ignorant" diver, it would seem much simpler to just inform them that if the bottle ever goes completely empty water could get inside, than trying to train them and have them practice regularly opening their pony bottle, such that they could do it in an emergency. The kinds of people who have pony bottles and transfill whips, are probably more likely to be informed within a matter of time anyway, given they're already showing above-average initiative, especially if they're taking the time to read threads like this one.

 

[Cio]

The answer is No, pony bottles are not dangerous, they are the opposite of dangerous and add a level of safety. All these arguments against a pony (and banning them on their boat) are complete nonsense.

If you were in an environment where you needed a life support system, to survive, would you want just one of those life support systems or would a primary and a backup make more sense?

 

[Waterwulf]

Personally, I think pony bottles are like anything else in this world. They're great and wonderful when they're needed, in the way most of the time, totally inert and non hazardous with most people and exceedingly dangerous when handled by idiots. How dangerous? Well, they're way more dangerous than a spoon and I saw a guy stab himself in the eye with a spoon. But, like a spoon, they're usually a good thing and required for the job. After all, it's difficult to eat soup with a fork and even more difficult to breath water and live.

 

[MyBuddy]

Scuba is inherently dangerous but we mitigate that with proper training, suitable equipment, and well established procedures. If someone uses a pony without training how to use it or has it poorly configured, it could contribute to an accident. Just like someone without training going scuba diving with poorly configured gear could and likely would contribute to an accident.

The most common pony issue that I’ve seen on SB is people starting the dive breathing the pony. This could be mitigated with training and by configuring the gear optimally in the first place.

• Placing the pony reg on a necklace would prevent the diver from reaching down on the right side and grabbing the wrong reg. This also allows the pony’s valve to be on without worrying about it being slowly emptied by a free flow. It’s hard not to notice bubbling coming from underneath your chin.
• Eliminating the octo from the primary tank to avoid having too many regs from which to choose.
• Slinging or sidemounting the pony so the diver can see the tank and easily tell which tank they’re using and manipulate the valve.
• Label the pony reg.
• I’m not a fan of back mounting a pony but some argue it has its place. If back mounted the valve should be easily accessible to be manipulated.

As far as using a pony to extend a dive, that’s not what a pony is for. By using it to extend a dive you’re waving a magic wand, tapping the pony’s valve stem and POOF it’s now a stage bottle. And just like a pony, If someone uses a stage bottle without training how to use it or has it poorly configured, it could contribute to an accident.

 

[Boarderguy]

Maybe it should be called a bottle instead of a bottle. Nobody beats a dead , but they sure do .

 

[MidOH]

Bottle-nose dolphin.

Like a pony, but bigger so you can use it as a stage too.

 

[tbone1004]

Branching off another thread, which went mildly off-topic:

1. Are pony bottles dangerous?
2. What are the hazards of pony bottles?
3. What safety advice would you give to someone using a pony bottle?
4. What other advice (sizing, selection, configuration, etc) would you give for pony bottle use?

This is mostly focused on #1, but I've included #2, #3, and #4 to make the thread a little more useful. Given this is somewhat of a debate thread, remember to keep it civil, we don't want the mods to come along with their tools.

1. they are not inherently dangerous
2. assuming they are configured properly, the biggest danger IMO and IME is the false sense of security that occurs when people undersize them or undertrain with them
3. figure out if you actually need this system and if there are other configurations that may make more sense
4. learn about rock bottom calculations