Are my regs assembled correctly? (Doubles)

[Jim Lapenta]

Great info! Thanks for the help and I hope maybe there were some other people out there looking for the same info. So that this thread stays on track and people dont argue over one point, I will only be using this rig in open water, at least for now. I like to have all the gear available to me, especially if I go the tech route or get into caving, which I havent really decided yet where I want to go. I mainly wanted doubles to start learning the basic fundamentals now so nothing feels foreign if I decide to stay in the tech direction. Thanks everyone for the help, I think im going to tinker a little more with my hose lengths

It really does not matter if you plan only on open water dives for now. Use the configuration you will use as if you were doing overheads. Those who say you can switch up have probably never taken a tech class or even dove doubles. Fact is gear set up should be logical and well thought out when making changes. It makes no sense to do something one way because "you're only doing ow dives now" and have to switch up later. Get a copy of Tom Mount's " Tao of Underwater Survival" See what it says about gear setups. You don't have to follow the DIR crowd to the letter. But what you do have to do is be smart about your setup, think it through, ask if it is the best possible way it can be, and if it enhances your safety or detracts from it. Little things like avoiding sharp bends in hoses, hoses that are too long, routing very different from the rest of the team's or your dive buddy's is not of benefit to anyone should things go wrong. If you have any more questions feel free to PM or talk to some tech divers in your area. If you are going the doubles route you are indeed entering to a small degree the technical realm. You now have possibly seperate air supplies, additional first stage, an isolator valve, etc. Things Joe Bob vacation diver does not have to deal with. You need to start thinking different and not listen to those who don;t know what they are talking about.

 

[ivobj]

Yeah yeah sure. But a roll off in open water I would assume be just about non-existent. And then many overhead environ divers use dual bladders and or dry suits for redundant buoyancy.

Sorry to disagree on that, but actually risk of roll "off" IS an issue in overhead and both the primary and the main buoyancy device inflator, among other reasons, are on the right post because roll "on" is important in overhead environments. Going further about the primary reg, the reason is not only because it is your primary reg, but also because it is the hose you donate, and in case of accidental roll off when donating, it should happen to you, not the one you're donating to, because he is probably in a higher stress level and you have imediate access to your own valves to reopen the backup, but the OOA diver have not.

I understand the matter of redundancy, and of course we have that in caves, but one rule is important, redundancy, regardless if a double blade or drysuit, is for emergency, you must think your configuration in such a way to never need to use the redundancy.

 

[halocline]

I don't have any problem with that. Why does it "look a little tangled" to you?

Would you have him route the LP hose OVER the corrugated hose?

On my doubles it's much cleaner to have the alternate reg hose go behind the corrugated hose, instead of in front of the elbow and underneath the corrugated hose. It could just be the way mine sits; one thing is that my reg hose is coming out of the top port on a turret reg (like the GUE MK25 photos), and the corrugated hose is short, 12". So the hose goes directly from the elbow over my shoulder and along the left shoulder strap. I'd have to divert the reg hose forward and down to get it under the corrugated hose, and I would think you'd want these hoses separated.

Like I said, it probably doesn't matter and probably differs from set up to set up, and with the wing style and placement.

 

[jrock357mag]

It really does not matter if you plan only on open water dives for now. Use the configuration you will use as if you were doing overheads. Those who say you can switch up have probably never taken a tech class or even dove doubles. Fact is gear set up should be logical and well thought out when making changes. It makes no sense to do something one way because "you're only doing ow dives now" and have to switch up later. Get a copy of Tom Mount's " Tao of Underwater Survival" See what it says about gear setups. You don't have to follow the DIR crowd to the letter. But what you do have to do is be smart about your setup, think it through, ask if it is the best possible way it can be, and if it enhances your safety or detracts from it. Little things like avoiding sharp bends in hoses, hoses that are too long, routing very different from the rest of the team's or your dive buddy's is not of benefit to anyone should things go wrong. If you have any more questions feel free to PM or talk to some tech divers in your area. If you are going the doubles route you are indeed entering to a small degree the technical realm. You now have possibly seperate air supplies, additional first stage, an isolator valve, etc. Things Joe Bob vacation diver does not have to deal with. You need to start thinking different and not listen to those who don;t know what they are talking about.

Jim,

I went ahead and changed from the setup in the pictures after looking at the photos of your Aeris setup. I think someone else commented about just putting the DST's vertical, so I tried it, and now I dont have any bends in my hoses. Also it seems as though the hoses seem to route much cleaner then the setup before. Though now it looks as though my inflator hose is a little to long so i think I will invest in a shorter one and like I said before Im going to get rid of the console and replace it with an SPG.

There are a few experienced tech divers here in the area that I dive with every saturday so Ill be sure to have them go over the setup before I dive it and maybe they can also give me their thoughts. Thanks again for your honest comments and suggestions.

 

[v--Locke--v]

Sorry to disagree on that, but actually risk of roll "off" IS an issue in overhead and both the primary and the main buoyancy device inflator, among other reasons, are on the right post because roll "on" is important in overhead environments. Going further about the primary reg, the reason is not only because it is your primary reg, but also because it is the hose you donate, and in case of accidental roll off when donating, it should happen to you, not the one you're donating to, because he is probably in a higher stress level and you have imediate access to your own valves to reopen the backup, but the OOA diver have not.

I understand the matter of redundancy, and of course we have that in caves, but one rule is important, redundancy, regardless if a double blade or drysuit, is for emergency, you must think your configuration in such a way to never need to use the redundancy.

Yeah of course it is (run across the top of the cave and the right post rolls closed). I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

BTW has anyone had any open water roll off experiences? It would be good to share and learn for everyone. Thanks.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim,

I went ahead and changed from the setup in the pictures after looking at the photos of your Aeris setup. I think someone else commented about just putting the DST's vertical, so I tried it, and now I dont have any bends in my hoses. Also it seems as though the hoses seem to route much cleaner then the setup before. Though now it looks as though my inflator hose is a little to long so i think I will invest in a shorter one and like I said before Im going to get rid of the console and replace it with an SPG.

There are a few experienced tech divers here in the area that I dive with every saturday so Ill be sure to have them go over the setup before I dive it and maybe they can also give me their thoughts. Thanks again for your honest comments and suggestions.

Good for you and hope you enjoy the setup. I was going to be in the Columbus Area next weekend on my way to Portage Quarry but plans changed thanks to my wife's family reunion:depressed:. In any case you are not that far away from me. I can be in Columbus in little over 2 hours. There are some local lakes in Caddis, Ohio, and Barkamp and Salt Fork state parks that have swimming beaches and I understand allow you to dive as well.. And of course there is always Buckeye Ocean.

If you'd like and have the chance some time we could probably work out getting together for a dive or two involving less than 1-1 1/2 hours drive time for each of us. Nothing fancy or complex but just something to help you out with your newfound toys. Might even get you interested in a navigation class or I also allow experienced and those who are otherwise qualified to take my advanced class in doubles and dry suit.Checkout this thread for a short outline of what the advanced class I teach entails for 175 bucks and private course is no extra cost unless travel costs are high( ie you want to do the dives in Florida you pay for the gas and hotel!), http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...des-upsides-ow-qual-quarry-3.html#post4530213

Get in touch with me via PM or my website at Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services.

I like that you are able to take a suggestion, think about it, and if it makes sense to you give it a try. Then evaluate it and reach your own conclusions(inflator currently too long). This is the mark of a smart diver. The kind of divers I enjoy diving with.

Jim

 

[Jimmer]

Ive never seen that before, any Idea if it takes a lot of work to have done? My LDS is an apeks dealer so I should be able to get that here locally.

Should be pretty easy for any Apeks tech to install.

 

[Cave Bum]

Putting the wing on the left post means it can roll off. Its your primary buoyancy device and needs to roll "on". If your suit (on the left post) rolls off its no big deal, you still have primary buoyancy, just stop your descent with your wing and turn the left post back on.

Sorry to disagree on that, but actually risk of roll "off" IS an issue in overhead and both the primary and the main buoyancy device inflator, among other reasons, are on the right post because roll "on" is important in overhead environments.

That's part of the point of routing it from your left post, to identify when you've had a roll-off. Inflation is not mission critical. If the diver is so overweighted that he or she can't stop a runaway decent by taking in a deep breath and reaching up and turning on the left valve or puffing a breath manually into the inflator, he or she has lots more to learn before they get into the complexity of doubles.

And it is most certainly not mission critical in a cave, contray to what JJ says. If you're cave diving, with the slight changes in depth we usually see in recreational caves, and can't control your bouyancy with your lungs for the few seconds it takes to fix a roll-off, you shouldn't be there.

As I've said above, the regulator you donate is an entirely different story. That is mission critical and must be on the 'roll-on' post.

Be safe and have fun in the water! Bruce

 

[Cave Bum]

Checkout this thread for a short outline of what the advanced class I teach entails for 175 bucks and private course is no extra cost unless travel costs are high( ie you want to do the dives in Florida you pay for the gas and hotel)
Jim

No, if he wants to do the advanced class in Florida, he can do it with me and save paying for your travel & hotel...

 

[ivobj]

That's part of the point of routing it from your left post, to identify when you've had a roll-off. Inflation is not mission critical. If the diver is so overweighted that he or she can't stop a runaway decent by taking in a deep breath and reaching up and turning on the left valve or puffing a breath manually into the inflator, he or she has lots more to learn before they get into the complexity of doubles.

And it is most certainly not mission critical in a cave, contray to what JJ says. If you're cave diving, with the slight changes in depth we usually see in recreational caves, and can't control your bouyancy with your lungs for the few seconds it takes to fix a roll-off, you shouldn't be there.

As I've said above, the regulator you donate is an entirely different story. That is mission critical and must be on the 'roll-on' post.

Be safe and have fun in the water! Bruce

Ok... definetly agree that if you can't correct a roll off you shouldn't be in a cave, not taking the discussion further, as I think configuration philosofy is a matter of choice and should be respected, but just to make it clear, the point I was willing to make is that although you can correct the inflator roll off, IMHO it is desirable not to let it roll off in the first place, as about being overweighted, sometimes (not in recreational cave of course), might not be easy not to be, sometimes the doubles alone is more weight than you need, add to that stage bottles, light cans and you will most probably be overweight.