Are Finns bad divers? Thread split

[taimen]

Could this culture with its high levels of education and standards of living causing these people to have a much higher and false sense of abilities that don't exist?

OK, I still take the bait and try to elaborate this. First of all, the widely publicised Finnish diving fatalities relate to one more or less organized group of divers, about a dozen or so, who are pushing the limits with extreme dives. This kind of group can form in any country or culture, and I just don't see any relevance trying to relate this to nationality or culture.
Otherwise there is no common nominator in Finnish diving fatalities.

Regarding your ideas about educational system and living standards, compared to neighboring countries, both are actually much lower. Average Swedes, Norwegians and Danes have significantly more disposable income and higher education than Finns. Also the USA has much higher percentage of population educated at college level or above (and this educated part of population does have more disposable income). Anyway, this doesn't relate to diving any more than having a slightly less divers around as diving is not the least expensive past-time activity around.

 

[undrwater]

We have a similar group in my area that has been brought up several times for lax of safety.

 

[bada3003]

The only one benefiting from this thread is the owner of SB. Ladies and Gents: go (ice) diving or maybe pick up a book. Yes, there are still such antiquated things (even in kindle form) that, well, actually contain non-zero information.

 

[Bob DBF]

No one seems to be able to confirm that there actually are more finnish fatalities than from countries geographically right next to them.

No one can confirm anything, because there is speculation rather than data. There is no registry of how many certified divers, active divers, dives made, difficulty of dives made, or a number of other variables that might be needed, because none of these things are tracked accurately anywhere. The closest one could possibly get is fatalities per population, and in areas like @BurhanMuntasser is in, may not track diving deaths separately, accurately, or at all, as there more pressing national issues.

Until there is an accurate database, our conclusions are based on our opinions.


Bob

 

[BoltSnap]

My dear Burhantassmaster. I do not know from which country you are. You are registered as Nomad in MAle ( Maldives ). Were are you from, being so certain about Finland and Lybia, I just wonder.

One thing is for sure: to try to derive "national" conclusions from 2 or 3 occurences is bad science.

Mr. FreeWillow,

Again, it is "Libya" not "Lybia"

I am not certain about anybody or anything other than about myself (I question that sometimes too). I am questioning, wondering, analyzing, etc. but never certain.

I have nothing to do with Maldives except wanting to go there to dive and vacation. I know a lot about Libya because I was born there and living in Libya now (I have lived in the US most of my life however and returned to Libya few years back thinking that I can make a difference).

This isn't "science," good or bad, it isn't much science at this point at all.

 

[BoltSnap]

No one can confirm anything, because there is speculation rather than data. There is no registry of how many certified divers, active divers, dives made, difficulty of dives made, or a number of other variables that might be needed, because none of these things are tracked accurately anywhere. The closest one could possibly get is fatalities per population, and in areas like @BurhanMuntasser is in, may not track diving deaths separately, accurately, or at all, as there more pressing national issues.

Until there is an accurate database, our conclusions are based on our opinions.


Bob

You are the closest one to the truth in my view. What you said applies to the US as much as to other less developed countries. In Libya, the typical "cause" for death while in the water irrespective of what the person was doing in the water, diving or anything else, is always "drowning." No statistics or real effort in determining the real cause for the fatality. It isn't only the situation in Libya now but it is also total ignorance of diving here and lack of motivation of the authorities to worry about diving and divers. Even during the less noisy times, before 2011 and the uprising that came then, same attitude and ignorance. Human life and well being didn't make much difference to the ruling regime nor did it become an issue unless there was a public relations part to it.

 

[Bob DBF]

What you said applies to the US as much as to other less developed countries.

I agree completely, there is a lack of good data surrounding diving. The difference I was pointing out is that in the US the associated activity would be recorded as well as the cause of death, where only the cause of death is relevant in some other countries.


Bob

 

[BoltSnap]

I agree completely, there is a lack of good data surrounding diving. The difference I was pointing out is that in the US the associated activity would be recorded as well as the cause of death, where only the cause of death is relevant in some other countries.


Bob

Yes, the US has stricter rules and regulations in regards to record keeping than other countries especially as to determining the cause of death (partially due to anticipated lawsuits that usually come after such accidents). I doubt that even in advanced countries of western Europe there are registries to keep track of certified divers, active divers, etc. as you pointed out. For those that are waiting for enough samples to make statistically valid conclusions, you are going to wait for a very long time that will probably go beyond any of our lifetimes.

 

[Freewillow]

Thanks for the answer and the grammatical correction . Well, maybe I should take the beer away since you are living in Libya. . I was just interested to find out why you were so focussed on Finland

 

[Bob DBF]

I was just interested to find out why you were so focussed on Finland

Unfortunately, because this was a thread split, you don't get to see the post @BurhanMuntasser was responding to so it looks like his post was the first in this discussion, and therefore focused on Finland when he was trying to get clarification. It had already had a life of its own for pages before the split, and the prior post both had pertinent information and derailed the thread.


Bob