Are Deep Dive and/or Wreck Dive specialties necessary?

[AnnikaPersson]

Let's see if I can clarify it for you since you aren't grasping what should be a simple concept.

The solo/self reliant diver certification is taught and recognized by scuba diving organizations around the world as well as countless dive operators around the globe. Divers spend a lot of their hard earned cash and valuable time to achieve this certification to expand their diving options and experiences.

When a closeminded and overly restrictive individual such as yourself who makes an absurd comment to the effect of "No way solo Full Stop!" it's a clear message that you don't respect a diver's hard earned certifications nor their skills that can be demonstrated during a checkout dive.

I´m grasping very well simple concept (and from time to time also more difficult ones).

Sometimes I might admit, I do not grasp the comments or tone of some people on forums like this.

I have never said I do not respect the choices and traning people do, that is an interpretation of yours. I just mentioned it is best to go to the source to ask the dive operator.
On trips I´m responsible for it is not a possibility, for solo diving, full stop. I guess I and other divers can get this answer from any dive operator, and the reverse is true as well.

 

[Blackcrusader]

On trips I´m responsible for it is not a possibility, for solo diving, full stop. I guess I and other divers can get this answer from any dive operator, and the reverse is true as well.

This is fine. I do deep dives on air... sometimes with deco obligation. Deep as in say 45m. BSAC sports deco diving was to 50m on air in the 80's. If I was diving with you and your policy is that you would not allow me to dive below 30m or go into deco I would say great I will dive to your policy. Same with dive ops that say they have a 60 minute dive policy regardless of your gas. Or operators that say do not dive deeper than the guides.

Funny thing on a dive in Cebu this month, after getting back on the boat a diver with another DM said to me wow you were really deep. I'm a bit confused I ask how so? He replied the DM took his group to around 10m after 30 mins so the divers could do an hours dive and then to 5m for the last 15 mins of their dive. I said sure when you are at 5m and I am at 20m I may look deep to you.

I then showed him my dive graph on my Perdix where I did most of my hours dive at around 18-20m but max 25m depth. Oh he said it looked like you went deeper. I replied nope you went shallower lol

 

[LI-er]

LOL.
I had no idea what is 9-5 job!!! I had never ever worked for anyone with inferior academic qualification than I.
Customers is NOT always right. PERIOD.

It's an expression, a figure of speech. It contains several subtle points that those who have never run a successful business fail to understand.

Of course a customer is not always right. It's about understanding their needs and trying to meet those needs, and if you can't, take a moment to explain why, so perhaps they will understand, not be put off, and they'll continue to patronize your business and refer others.

Any business has the right to turn away customers. Those who say so on this thread are stating the obvious and not offering anything of value to the discussion. What's also obvious is the right of the customer to take their business elsewhere and share their negative experiences on social media which will certainly affect a business thst is very customer service oriented and works on razor thin margins. Almost every dive charter practically begs for a positive review as they head back to the dock, because they're all competing for the same diminishing pool of customers. Another expression is that it's much easier to lose a bunch of customers than gain a new one. Another is that empty seats can't be filled after the plane takes off.

This past week a dive Op didn't get my $600 AUD and never will. They didn't fill their boat thst day (I checked the schedule). They won't see money from anyone I might have sent their way or who is made aware of their poor customer service from my 1 star reviews on multiple sites.2 other dive charters in the same region permitted solo diving. They will continue to get my money, referrals and 5 star reviews.

If you have a restrictive policy especially one thst differs from your competitors then at least take a moment to explain why it's in place. As was done by one member on this thread.

Is it because of insurance rules? Did you personally witness a fatality thst has caused you to implement this policy? Is it against local law? Do you have an anxiety disorder that makes you extremely risk averse?

As opposed to "No Way Full Stop!" which is simply a rude and inconsiderate brush off that makes it clear the person saying it is giving the choice between their way and the highway because it's their boat or their guided dive and there's nothing to talk about so sit down and STFU or go elsewhere.

@steinbil I don't care if it's John Chattertom or Donald Trump uttering that useless & condescending phrase ("who do you think you are making such a stupid request!"), my response would be the same. Especially when they keep saying it over and over like a parrot.

 

[Blackcrusader]

It's an expression, a figure of speech. It contains several subtle points that those who have never run a successful business fail to understand. Of course a customer is not always right. It's about understanding their needs and trying to meet those needs so they'll continue to patronize your business and refer others.

Well the reply should really not have bothered you so much. All she wrote was that she wont allow divers to do solo dives or deep dives on air. I do not know mnay ops that like to have solo divers on dives when there DM's are guiding dives. There are some operators that will take me on a 50m dive to a hammerhead cleaning station with light back gas deco. Pretty much all the PADI operators I dive with will say look its gret you are deco certified but please no deco dives.

Recently on a shark diving vacation the guides were diving deeper than the law allowed and were also doing deco dives on a single AL80. Lots of divers with them had their DC alarms going off not knowing whose alarm it was. I had one couple pointing to my DC thinking they were hearing my alarm. Back on the boat I had to tell them my DC does not have audio alarms. Seems a lot of divers don't even know their own DC settings and they had alarms for diving deep.

 

[Seepferdchencam]

Where have you been asked for a certification higher or in addition to AOW for a recreational dive?

Required on boats in my part of Australia where the entire bottom lies in the in the 30m - 40m range.

 

[LI-er]

Well the reply should really not have bothered you so much.

I wonder if there have been times in your life when the words or actions of another person, or some random event really bugged the crap out of you. Maybe you were running late for a show and your wife is trying in her 4th dress, or your teenage daughter's new boyfriend shows up at your door and he's a drug addicted jobless loser with more piercings than a pin cushion? Maybe you took a week vacation from work,flew to another state, rented a car and hotel, only to be canceled the night before you were scheduled to dive a world class shipwreck thst you booked a month earlier, because there weren't enough divers to be profitable?

How would you feel if someone said "that shouldn't have bothered you so much"

 

[nadwidny]

I´m grasping very well simple concept (and from time to time also more difficult ones).

Sometimes I might admit, I do not grasp the comments or tone of some people on forums like this.

I have never said I do not respect the choices and traning people do, that is an interpretation of yours. I just mentioned it is best to go to the source to ask the dive operator.
On trips I´m responsible for it is not a possibility, for solo diving, full stop. I guess I and other divers can get this answer from any dive operator, and the reverse is true as well.

If you find the tone difficult to grasp, stop saying "Full stop". It's comes across as confrontational and arrogant.

 

[steinbil]

If you find the tone difficult to grasp, stop saying "Full stop". It's comes across as confrontational and arrogant.

Context matters.

1: "You should never do...xyz. Full stop!
2: "Personally I would not allow...xyz. Full stop!

While the first one can be confrontational, and possibly arrogant depending on the circumstances, I think you have to be quite sensitive to interpret the second one as such.

 

[JMarc]

Context matters.

1: "You should never do...xyz. Full stop!
2: "Personally I would not allow...xyz. Full stop!

While the first one can be confrontational, and possibly arrogant depending on the circumstances, I think you have to be quite sensitive to interpret the second one as such.

Strange, without context I think the second has more potential to be confrontational. The first is stating something about your practice and the worst I can read in it is a judgment for wanting to do otherwise, the second is about something you want to impose on others, and the worst I can read in it is a readiness to lobby to have it mandatory by law and use even illegal means to force the desired behavior.

In the context, I've seen no hint that the worse is the correct interpretation in this thread, but living in a country where there are laws which restrict the dives you can do, I must admit that when reading the initial message I did not exclude the "desire that solo and deep air diving be illegal" interpretation immediately.

 

[paddydiver]

My 2 cents...I have both Deep and Wreck Instructor speciality, Compared to Nitrox I've taught barely any of these courses. They are nice if you are trying to collect certs. If you are fairly new to diving you go over some basic skills and learn a little more about things like tying off a line and using a second air source. I've never asked and never seen anyone else ask to see a deep or wreck cert. If they are asking you it's because they are trying to sell you a course full stop!. (sorry ) On the other hand if you're going to be diving often in Europe, particularly the Med, you might be surprised at whats considered a normal deep dive...

On having Deco and Solo dive certs, there is a whole host of reasons that operators will make you stick to their plan rather then let you dive solo and to be honest they are fair enough. First off a lot of day trip and liveaboard boats are on fairly tight schedules. 2-4 dives a day to organise along with Meals, filling tanks and maybe excursions to the beach etc. Why should 1 or 2 divers change plans for the day because they're racking up 40 mins of Deco? For solo dives I would really want to know the people first and be absolutely sure they know local conditions. I've had experienced Tek instructors come on a boat and end up drifting miles because they didn't know local currents. Finally some countries have laws that simply state any recreational diver must be guided by someone from a local diving operation. Of course, happily, some operators differ, but I'd say it's a must to contact any dive shop first about Deco or Solo. By the way, if you're diving in Northern Europe it's almost a given you won't be guided.