are combination octo/power inflators BS?

[dnj30]

This has been the subject of much debate on the board. Try doing a search for AIR2 or AirSource. I've used one (AirSource) and liked it. Others will recommend against it.

i'm a newly certified diver and just bought new gear. i opted for the tusa duo octo/infl combo. i've been reading all the opinions and both sides make good points. forgive me if this is a stupid question: could i have both the octo/inflate and a traditional octo as well? seems like this would give me a system that is super-safe. 2 redundancies instead of only 1. i am a newbie, so please be gentle if this is just a dumb idea

 

[DepartureDiver]

could i have both the octo/inflate and a traditional octo as well? seems like this would give me a system that is super-safe. 2 redundancies instead of only 1.

sure, but why would you want too? The redundancy is not for you, but for your buddy that runs out of gas. You will be breathing from the alternate. You simply don't need two. A regulator doesn't just fail unless it is a freeflow. If it does and it is in the first stage, the number of second stages you have won't matter. The alternate is really for a buddy that runs out of gas.

 

[tangfish]

both sides do make good points. I am the original poster, and I weighed all the opinions carefully before eventually going with the Atomic SS1 combo octo/p.inflator. The way I look at it, for now while I'm doing mostly rec diving and traveling lots, it makes sense. Also, since I use the SS1 all the time as my power inflator I am going to know exactly where it is in the event that my primary is ripped right out of my mouth (as it will most likely happen anyway), instead of an octopus that I rarely reach for. If I get into tech diving then I can always buy a seperate octopus, but that'll be down the road if ever. Both systems have been around for a long time and you won't go wrong with either one, it just depends on what you are comfortable with.

have fun and welcome to the board!

 

[HaoleDiver]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents.
I think - like most things non-DIR - its a matter of what you are comfortable with, your own personal preferences. I have both an Air2 and a full 2nd reg, and I've used both in the course of diving. For OOA situations with dive buddies, I'll use the octo, because the longer hose is easier for all of us, and they know its there so they can grab for it. The Air2 is used if I happen to need to fiddle with my reg a little, for example, I put a new mouth piece on it the other day, and my first dive, found that part of the ziptie it was secured with was rubbing me wrong, so instead of popping the octo out of its holder and hving to deal with putting it back, I just grabbed the Air2, popped it in, did the work I needed to do.
Personally, my octo is for OOA situations, my Air2 is for my own redundancy should my primary reg be rendered unusable.
It also gives me an extra breathing source for whatever need without adding bulk or hoses, so for me, it makes sense to have.
That all being said, I use a ScubaPro Air2 on my setup now, and I'm buying an SS1 to use with a new setup, because both of them have the same male end, so they can be used with a single inflator hose, no need of switching.

 

[ElectricZombie]

Are those combos a gimmick, a danger, or a convenient way to stremline your gear?

They are a danger and a gimmick. You can get a legitimate regulator for less anyway. Your backup reg should be worn in a necklace under your chin.

 

[Albion]

They are a danger and a gimmick. You can get a legitimate regulator for less anyway. Your backup reg should be worn in a necklace under your chin.

How are they a danger can you give me one ocassion where these caused uinjury or failure

 

[scubafanatic]

Have you ever taken a 'technical' dive class/training? You will never see 'advanced' dive instructors using an integrated BC hose/octo...and if you sign up for such classes, you won't be allowed into the water with that configuration.

You are free to use that configuration in 'recreational' diving...however, I'm at a loss as to the attractiveness of that option, since you are now aware 'real' divers won't dive that way, and there's no reason you shouldn't dive like the 'pros'...and give the 'pros' some credit for knowing what they are taking about in such matters.

Technical diving teaches that it's principles apply across the whole range of diving....including the beginner diver...sound safety procedures that apply to all.

Before you decide to buy the BC hose/octo configuration have you thought about:

--how you might embolize on the way up if you hold your breath on the way up since you'll be taking the octo out of your mouth to vent your BC to avoid a runaway ascent?

--even if you remember to exhale properly, you'll be in a panic too, your air comsumption will be higher than ever, do your really want to have to keep taking the reg out of your mouth to vent your BC?

--how you'll be screwed if you buddy grabs your octo to breathe (in a panic a diver may go to your
octo, as he's pretty focused on grabbing any regulator he plainly sees bubbling, if that's what's in your mouth he'll key on that ...oops, there goes your control over your bouyancy......another runaway ascent......embolism.....and death!)

--if you're in a low vis/night/darkness scenario.....and the buddy runs out of air......he's not gonna waste time trying to guess where the heck you've stowed your octo......he's gonna find your body, then he's gonna find your head, then your face, then your mouth, then rip the reg out of your mouth.

If you're breathing your primary 2nd stage, he's gonna take that and you're gonna get stuck with the octo.....the one that's so short you can't turn your head, the one that breathes poorly, the one you have to keep taking out of your mouth to vent the BC.

If somehow you get him to use the octo, congradulations, you've got a panicky diver a foot away from you, who's in charge of your bouyancy.....no room to maneuver or swim...and God-forbid you're in a tight/constricted place where 2 divers can't fit though simultaneously....you can't swim one behind the other in line with your buddy using your octo...and you probably won't be able to do it even with your longer primary 2nd stage.

The integrated BC/octo is a great idea as long as you never actually have to use it.....in a non-emergency situation, where the octo is just along for the ride, no harm is done......but in this case the cure is worse than the disease......an extra hose the just the price that has to be paid to really have a functional system.

Karl

 

[tangfish]

hmmmm....well, if I were ascending using the combo inflator I would just use one of my other 2 dump valves to vent. If I were with an OOA buddy, I would give him my primary, and my specific setup has a long enough inflator hose for me to turn my head as far as it will go anyways without it falling off.

 

[Albion]

Have you ever taken a 'technical' dive class/training? You will never see 'advanced' dive instructors using an integrated BC hose/octo...and if you sign up for such classes, you won't be allowed into the water with that configuration.

--how you might embolize on the way up if you hold your breath on the way up since you'll be taking the octo out of your mouth to vent your BC to avoid a runaway ascent?

--even if you remember to exhale properly, you'll be in a panic too, your air comsumption will be higher than ever, do your really want to have to keep taking the reg out of your mouth to vent your BC?

--how you'll be screwed if you buddy grabs your octo to breathe (in a panic a diver may go to your
octo, as he's pretty focused on grabbing any regulator he plainly sees bubbling, if that's what's in your mouth he'll key on that ...oops, there goes your control over your bouyancy......another runaway ascent......embolism.....and death!)

--if you're in a low vis/night/darkness scenario.....and the buddy runs out of air......he's not gonna waste time trying to guess where the heck you've stowed your octo......he's gonna find your body, then he's gonna find your head, then your face, then your mouth, then rip the reg out of your mouth.

If you're breathing your primary 2nd stage, he's gonna take that and you're gonna get stuck with the octo.....the one that's so short you can't turn your head, the one that breathes poorly, the one you have to keep taking out of your mouth to vent the BC.

If somehow you get him to use the octo, congradulations, you've got a panicky diver a foot away from you, who's in charge of your bouyancy.....no room to maneuver or swim...and God-forbid you're in a tight/constricted place where 2 divers can't fit though simultaneously....you can't swim one behind the other in line with your buddy using your octo...and you probably won't be able to do it even with your longer primary 2nd stage.

The integrated BC/octo is a great idea as long as you never actually have to use it.....in a non-emergency situation, where the octo is just along for the ride, no harm is done......but in this case the cure is worse than the disease......an extra hose the just the price that has to be paid to really have a functional system.

Karl

1) we arent talking technical divng here its recreactional, great a bungied necklace may be better to you but tome in a Rec situation it is more streamlined and not a risk.
2) You have obviously never used one , as you can still vent bc even with it in your mouth, and if you did take it out of your mouth PADI OW trianing teaches you to always make bubbles or did you unlearn that in tech training?
3) In a panic i hope my buddy does grab the reg out of my mouth that his one to breathe off, i will use the AIR2
4) When does an AIR2 breathe poorly, again you have never used one. It does restrict head movement but not so much that you cant function and complete dive.
5) Your buddy will only be a foot away from you, again your clueless, he will be on your primary which if you want can be a 5 or 7 foot hose so he can be miles away

You have obviously never used an AIR2 and are spouting crap.

If you dont know what your talking about then dont bother posting

PS I have about 450 dives on mine and it hasn't killed me yet!

 

[ReefGuy]

I agree with Albion. I never had problems practicing with my air2. I always TOLD my buddy "Try to give me warning, but if you need air GO FOR MY PRIMARY" That's the proper procedure.

How can you say that the air2 breathes poorly when you've obviously never used or even seen it used. I used mine on EVERY dive, I practice switching to my secondary on my safety stop - no buoyancy issues here. It breathed as well as my primary at 115' on the dwain. Fine at 80' on the Spiegel Grove. Fine just everywhere.