are combination octo/power inflators BS?

[ReefGuy]

You're right, Boogie. I'm sorry to the DIR divers out there. It was a case of fingers outracing the brain.

Low blow and uncalled for. Say what you want about him, technical divers et al, but you brought up DIR, not him. The standards he's referring to can be found with TDI, IANTD, NACD, etc.

 

[debdiver]

Not to complicate this discussion further, but... folks ... no one mentioned that if you are diving DRY, the need to vent your BC is far less, if any. I don't hold much if any air in my BC while diving. I use the BC while on the SURFACE ONLY. When diving dry, I use my suit for buoyancy.

I've got a Sherwood integrated LP hose and octo. Gads, I can't even remember which year I bought the thing... 1996/1998?? How many dives ... hundreds... OOA situations I've been in .... ZERO. An no, my gear doesn’t sit in the closet and collect dust. That reg set up has many dives on it. I have had a buddy LOW on air and I donated my primary to him to increase our safety stop. I've done that a lot, seeing as I'm always better on air than almost ANY ONE I've ever dove with, smaller tank or not. I also suppose you could say that's practice. During those times, I NEVER ONCE needed to deflate my BC. I would however, adjust buoyancy via my dry suit. Again, not a problem.

My older brother has been diving since 1970. (Still alive, NEVER bent, NEVER OOA, he is a very, VERY safe diver and boat capt.) He would CRACK up at some of the stuff on this argument. I’m the “young” kid in his eyes, and I’m feeling so old. No one here mentioned all the problems ScubaPro had with their first AIR2 model. I guess those problems have long past by now.

For recreational diving, I would recommend the combined octo/LP hose set up. The key is, if you are comfortable with it. Another poster above made some great comments about respecting the diver that is comfortable with their own configuration.

 

[Snowbear]

Not to complicate this discussion further, but... folks ... no one mentioned that if you are diving DRY, the need to vent your BC is far less, if any. I don't hold much if any air in my BC while diving. I use the BC while on the SURFACE ONLY. When diving dry, I use my suit for buoyancy.

Not complicated, but though most of us are taught to use the drysuit for buoyancy as you do, many of us have figured out we have better control and fewer difficulties when we use the BC/Wing for buoyancy and the drysuit for it's intended purpose - exposure protection. I put enough gas in my drysuit to relieve squeeze and stay warm. I use my wing for buoancy. Yes, this means I have to vent both on ascent, but it's really not a problem.

Welcome to the board, debdiver.

 

[Boogie711]

Welcome Deb - and yes, Snowbear is right. Most people were trained to use their drysuit for buoyancy, but most posters (much like Snowbear and myself) have discovered that your dive experience is far better if you promptly ignore that advice. It relieves a lot of the problems associated with controlling buoyancy vis a vis floaty feet or 'riding a bubble.'

 

[Albion]

......as I said, you are perfectly free to use the AIR2 in recreational diving, although I'm at a loss as to why one would prefer employing a 2nd rate solution instead of the configuration that works for ALL scenarios, 'tech' and 'rec'......and since I won't be diving with you, your choice won't bother me.

.....if you'd ever tanken any advanced dive training, you'd understand professional divers are heavily focused on team work and the buddy system......simply put, gear is configured under the assumption there's a fair chance it will actually have to be used to save a life......the AIR2 is a product who's mission statement is : octo's are a pain in the ass to carry, but it isn't politically-correct to dive without one, so here's the bare minimum octo we could build, so you can claim you have an alternate air source...and it actually might work under ideal conditions.

Use of the AIR2 is 'selfish', an item you buy thinking mainly of yourself...who emphasis is on convienience, not functionality under a wide range of conditions.

......again, I'm not getting into a pissing match with you....but you don't have to believe just me.....why don't you get on the WWW and look for advanced dive training classes...then look at the --required-- gear for the classes......and show me one case where an AIR2 is on the --required-- gear list.

The results of that search may give you the hint that you don't know quite as much about diving as you think you do. Karl

Karl i know plenty thanks as i said for starters i have over 450 dives of experience on my AIR II, and i am yet to hear your experience other than a search on WWW so at the moment your credentials are looking slightly Cyber Diver IMO. I dont want a pissing competition either i would just like some facts from you to back up your claims.

True for technical overheads deep wreck caving etc etc, i would not use an AIRII. But neither would i be on single tanks and I would also have a completely differnt first stage and second stage setup. But this board is primarily recreational and this post is not in the DIR or Technical sections so i feel free to post a NON Tec reply. Certain tech items and configartions can carry over, but not using them in a rec environment does not automatically make you a bad diver.

Further advanced technical training and proffesional training should not be confused these are two separate issues, and second not all technical trianing is focssued on team work, IANTD and TDI focus more on the diver being self sufficient, GUE foccuses on Team and so you are sounding very DIR wannabe

The airII is no more selfish than a bungied spare second stage under the chin, in both cases the doner is donating HIS/HER primary to the OOA Diver, not very selfish is it. IN fact completely the opposite, i am saying have my best reg.

In many cases it has been shown that although the agencies (PADI etc) teach you to donate your spare Second stage a panicked OOA diver will grab the first thing he sees, normally what you are breathing from, so with an AIRII this is exactly what you want to happen. You then reach with left hand to your inflator and jam it in your mouth. This IMVVHO opinion is a step up from the STANDARD configuration, ie the spare second stage stuffed into a pocket, a scumball or simply left to drag along the sand. In this case either the second stage is not easily locatable (it should be but watch many reef divers and look for their spare reg), or it may not be functional. Both the AIRII and the bungied spare reg under the chin meet this requirement, and both of these can use a long hose to donate.

You can argue that the under chin maybe a higher perfoming reg, this may be true but mine breathes fine at 40+M. You can also argue that a jammed inflator button would require you to disconnect the LP hose leaving the reg useless, this would then call the dive anyway and I would use extra caution. finishing the dive. In case of an OOA at this point (iE a double failure condition) my buddy and I still have the option to buddy breathe from one reg, did you forget that part of your OW training when you did your Cyber Tech course, and so we are still on the route to survival.
I can argue (AS I HAVE SEEN IT TWICE on standard inflators) that because the AIRII is regularly serviced, the jammed inflator is a far more rare occurence with AIRII than it is with standard inflator design, when did you have yours serviced last.

In summary for recreational diving the AIRII is safer degin than the standard regulator arrangement.

Now Karl, You have said all sorts of crap you are yet to back up with facts other than suggesting a search on WWW. If you are going to post anything else then please provide some hard facts. As so far you have shown a complete failing of understanding in the working of the AIRII, Hmm maybe you should search the WWW to find out how it works.

 

[scubafanatic]

Hi Albion,

...if you'd read carefully you'd have seen my post including this statement:

"........I speak from experience, having taken Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures in 04/03.....and a week of cave-diving class in Akumal, Mexico in 09/03.....both were taught per TDI standards.....so I've --actually-- done a bit of advanced training in the real world...which does not constitute "mindlessly following the herd and repeating rhetoric ".

I suspect I'm one of the few divers posting on this thread that ISN'T a 'cyber diver'...and I've noticed the 'cyber divers' who have been posting on this thread have so far failed to find a single example of a 'tech' diving class/course where use of an AIR2 is recommended/approved.

The original point of this thread was a basic question about the pros/cons of the AIR2...and my point is that the world-class divers recommend against it...as can be proven by researching the WWW.

I recommended that WWW 'search' be done as it's the only independent/objective way anyone can 'win' this arguement...........I've noticed you describe my posts as "crap".......I could say the same thing about your posts....but mudslinging will serve no purpose........anyone can make all sorts of claims here about their 'impressive' dive backgrounds ie " over 450 dives of experience on my AIR II"...none of which can be independently verified.....I guess I could come back at you claiming I've done numerous dives completely swimming under the full length of the polar icecap...and see who could top that.

Simply put, the AIR2 is a solution to a non-existant problem, there's no compelling financial / operational reason to use one, and lots of reason not to use one...and anyone who's apparently task-overloaded with that one extra traditional octo hose should probably reconsider their involvement in scuba diving in the first place.

Karl

 

[tangfish]

Hello, I am the OP on this thread, and I guess I've stirred up as controversial of an arguement as there could be on the board. This all leads me to beleive that there are just as many good reasons to have a combo as there are not to. I suppose its just fine and dandy if it suits your fancy! Lets all just get along, we all were brought to this board out of our common interest in the same activity.

 

[archman]

In the few months I've been on this board, this topic pops up rather commonly. It pretty much ends the same way each time, too. Make some popcorn, run a search, and enjoy the ride. Eventually you figure out never to start a thread which might run counter to aspects of technical diving. Unless you like drama, of course.

 

[Albion]

Hi Albion,

...if you'd read carefully you'd have seen my post including this statement:

"........I speak from experience, having taken Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures in 04/03.....and a week of cave-diving class in Akumal, Mexico in 09/03.....both were taught per TDI standards.....so I've --actually-- done a bit of advanced training in the real world...which does not constitute "mindlessly following the herd and repeating rhetoric ".

I suspect I'm one of the few divers posting on this thread that ISN'T a 'cyber diver'...and I've noticed the 'cyber divers' who have been posting on this thread have so far failed to find a single example of a 'tech' diving class/course where use of an AIR2 is recommended/approved.

The original point of this thread was a basic question about the pros/cons of the AIR2...and my point is that the world-class divers recommend against it...as can be proven by researching the WWW.

I recommended that WWW 'search' be done as it's the only independent/objective way anyone can 'win' this arguement...........I've noticed you describe my posts as "crap".......I could say the same thing about your posts....but mudslinging will serve no purpose........anyone can make all sorts of claims here about their 'impressive' dive backgrounds ie " over 450 dives of experience on my AIR II"...none of which can be independently verified.....I guess I could come back at you claiming I've done numerous dives completely swimming under the full length of the polar icecap...and see who could top that.

Simply put, the AIR2 is a solution to a non-existant problem, there's no compelling financial / operational reason to use one, and lots of reason not to use one...and anyone who's apparently task-overloaded with that one extra traditional octo hose should probably reconsider their involvement in scuba diving in the first place.

Karl

I bow to your superiority, oh great Karl, however i dont need to prove my dives to anyone except myself (i could ask another member of this board to verify it for you but whatever, that seems a little childish quite frankly), it works for me i am comforatble using it and I AM AWARE OF THE ALTERNATIVES. None of the Cyber diving experts have tried to disprove its use in tech diving because i htink i can speak for all the posters here that we all understand it wouldnt be suitable there, we dont want to suggest its use in Tech diving and have never said this. I would not use an AIRII there. I am going to be taking the deco / adv nitrox shortly but plan to get a completely different set of regulators with DIN fittings, these are incompatible with most resort tanks which use Yokes, so i have no plan to use my Rec equipment for Tech or vice versa, it is two different situations to me.

I consider much of your posts to be crap as you were spouting information that showed up the fact that you did not even understand which diver (the owner or the buddy) was supposed to use which Reg (ie saying it is selfish, the OOA buddy will only be a foot away from you, what if they take your primary reg etc etc.) You came up with so many incorect facts over the usage of this type of reg that i dont consider any of what you said to be relavent. If someone wants to consider the use an AIRII they should have accurate facts (you were spouting rumours). Yes the basic premise of this thread was to offer pros and cons, you have yet to come up with a Con which is in fact true. I Have suggested some pros and even some cons, no half truths

If you read carefuly i did not dispute the use of a bungied backup, but I am suggesting that many of the arguments against the use of an AIRII are bull. Probably 90% of the Resort / Recreational / reef divers out there use a standard configuration with the spare Reg stuffed in thier pocket, the AIRII is certinaly an improvement over this.

In summary Karl, you and I are never going to agree on this, i just hope that i have dispelled the halfturths listed in your posts to allow a balanced review of the options available, if you want to post further on this then get your facts right.

I hope that Funkyspelunker you have received enough pros and cons that you are happy with your decision. Personally i now have the Seaquest Air Source which is no bigger than a regular inflator and works really well.

 

[jerseybones]

Have used a sherwood shadow+ it breathed like crap! but will also keep breathing.......like crap, when disconnected from the inflator, it will get you to the surface, but not smiling! When i got it i thought great! one less hose. When i had more dives under my belt i realized that a hose or two either way is no biggie as long as you have them squared away. My preference now is (and i am not DIR) a slightly longer primary and a "real" 2nd for an octo, bungied necklace. It just seems to work well and made sense...for me. All that aside I think trying out alot of different gear configurations is great, find what works and feels best for YOU, not everyone dives in the same conditions so what works best for one diver in general may not be the best for another. Just be satisfied that you are DIS.(Doing it Safe) Plus Ebay would probably go out of business without us!!! Disclaimer: If any DIR radicals wish to flame me now i am prepared, have donned my new NOMEX flameproof drysuit with Halon gas firesuppressing inflation system! Have Fun and Dive Safe!!