are combination octo/power inflators BS?

[tangfish]

An exceedingly large number of instructors and divers I've talked to in person have said that the combo inflator/octo is perfectly fine for rec purposes, in quit a juxtaposition to the majority sentiment on this board, I think what I'll end up doing is getting a combo for travel and rec diving and also an octopus for those times that I may be doing some more precarious dives and/or if my buddy prefers it, also on local dives where the size of my equipment doesn't matter as much. A good compromise?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I haven't posted in this thread because we've discussed these things so many times.

I would really recommend that any one who's thinking about getting one of these things read some of our past discussions first.

 

[ReefGuy]

I considered doing the same thing, but I think it's not a very good idea to change such a central component of your gear configuration on the fly. The only things I switch around are extras (camera, slurp gun, goodie/lobster bags, etc), all of my life support is always the same (bc, octo, knife, shears, etc.)

 

[cortez]

I agree with ReefGuy, I don't like the idea of changing around the "life support" gear. I think always using the same (or similar) gear configuration offers the benefit of increased instinctive retrieval (of an octopus for example). Increased instinctive behavior leads to greater comfort, which leads to less stress and task loading, which leads to less chance of panic, etc.. All of which ultimately lead to a more enjoyable dive adventure.

 

[kd5izq]

It seems nice to have one less hose but I think it's too big a compromise. I started out on rental gear with the Scubapro Air2. I felt it was too awkward and inflexible in real use. And I don't know if this is always the case or just the rentals I had, but they always seemed to breath lousy too and I wouldn't want to be the one who wound up using it.

I was actually reading through these posts to see if anyone else had been through the same thing. Not that I'm glad you did, but its good to know that someone shares my opinion.
When I got my first set of dive gear, when I THOUGHT I KNEW what I needed and wanted, it came with a SP Air II. I made about 20 dives with it and traded it in for some lead weight.

1) Very Bulky
2) Never breathed right
3) Cumbersome to use inflate and deflate buttons
4) 1 potential failure point actually becomes 2 in 1
5) Streamlining just wasn't worth the piece of mind it cost me.
6) I wanted to pursue my Divemaster and possible instructor and for working with students I feel they should be trained with what is most common place...a standard alternate air source or octo.

These are my opinions and are based on my feelings and experience having used one of these devices. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post, but thats life.

If someone wants to use one of these alternative air sources, that is their choice, but I believe it is imperative that they practice regurally with any buddy they may dive with that is not familiar with their MO.

 

[ZoCrowes255]

As has been said multiple times on this thread: Try it and see if you like it. I've been using one for almost ten years and not had a problem with it yet over a few hundred dives and a few thousand hours of pool time. My father has been using one since it's inception and has never had a problem with thousands of dives on it. This whole thing about them not breathing as well is just BS. The regulator mechanism in the AIRII (the only one I have experience with) is the EXACT same unbalanced second stage found in Scubapros R190 and R390. It's about as simple as you can get. It's all what YOU are comfortable with. Many places have them in rental. Try it see if you like it. Get with your buddy and do a few OOA drills. If it works for you then it works for you. If it doesn't then go with a traditional backup. It's that simple.

 

[tangfish]

thank you all for the great information. I am the original poster who asked the question about octo+ vs. traditional octo. i see that the majority of you are proponents of the traditional octo setup. i agree that in theory it is better to have a regular octo, especially for any kind of tech diving (and frankly i am thinking of going that way after reading all this). now aside from that, have any of you actually had REAL life experience with the octo+ or been on a dive with someone who was using one ever been in a situation where the use of an octo+ lead to the detriment of that diver or his/her buddy? Real life experiences only please (since I feel like we're beating the theoretical arguement side of this to death).

 

[oversea]

I have the air 2 and like it alot, it breathes good, and less stuff on me which is important to ME. Try things out, ignore people telling you yes and no. As this is your first setup, everything works well, you need to decide what you can afford and what you like and the hell with everyone else. Remember, there is no laws as to your equipment choice. Just choose wisely and remember your safety is on the line.

 

[MikeFerrara]

now aside from that, have any of you actually had REAL life experience with the octo+ or been on a dive with someone who was using one ever been in a situation where the use of an octo+ lead to the detriment of that diver or his/her buddy?

I have.

I had a DM some years ago that insisted on using one of those things. I expressed my concerns and at my urging spent some time practicing with it even.

Some time later a students husband was tagging along witha class I was teaching and my wife sinaled me that he was low on air.

I checked his air and took the group to an up-line and got them to about 20 ft before I had the DM with the air 2 donate gas to him. I had a class to look out for and didn't want to be tied to some OOA gamoke.

Anyway they had several minutes of safety stop time to think about their final ascent. When the started up they got going too fast and I saw the DM searching on his shoulder for his deflatoe which of course was in his mouth.

An emergency is not time to have to do simple things that you do all the time diferent. You want to take advantage of muscle memory rather than having it worg against you. Inflators belong in your hand and not in your mouth.

I prefer to use a long enough hose on my primary to effectively share air with it since that's what some one will grab anyway. I want my alternate to be a hight quality reg and I want it right under my chin. In a pinch I can even get it in my mouth wothout using my hands.

This way my ascent is always done the same regardless of what reg I'm breathing on. The only thing that changes is what has to change and it doesn't effect anything else.

The air 2 type devices fix a problem that wouldnt exist if hoses were routed right in the first place. They then create a host of other issues.

The first counter arguement people use is to say that they practice with it. So...You practice doing things with your inflator in your hand more than you do with it in your mouth.

A second is the arguement that they can dump with a one of their pull-shoulder dumps...another thing that we don't need plastered all over a bc. Again they fill a need that just doesn't exist, IMO

A third is that they can dump just fine with the thing in their mouth...well maybe if you're totally vertical...but that's a whole other issue.

 

[oversea]

See, I have never had the problems mike is describing. I don't use my inflator to dump. I have a right shoulder and lower right dump I totally use. It's not from practice, its just the way I do it. I don't like the way the inflator dumps. Also because both my lower and upper dumps are on the same time, it has just become second nature to reach for either on my right side. I only use my inflator for inflating or emergency breathing. Keep in mind, this is ME, so yours and others may be different.