Review Apprentice Cave Course Review

[AeroSpartacus]

so why did you choose apprentice cave instead of just continuing down the path with TDI intro to cave? could of saved you a couple days. but I guess more time and practice is better.

From what I've seen, the exact certifications (on the NSS-CDS side anyway) might have moved around a little in the past few years, but I wasn't around for that. From my understanding, NSS-CDS Apprentice Cave and TDI Intro to Cave are nearly the same (in terms of limitations) with the main difference that Apprentice lets you use up to 50 cubic feet/one-third (whichever is less) where TDI Intro is limited to one-sixth. Past that it's the same limitations: no deco, 1,000 feet penetration, no navigation.

Fully agree. Make sure your future courses aren't you and the instructor. The difference between a single student class and a multi student class are night and day

That's good feedback, I'll reach out more proactively ahead of full cave to try to make sure there's less 2-person dives there.

 

[tbone1004]

Glad you had a teammate once or twice. I’m quite opposed to private classes at any of the early and middle tech levels and there are a few agencies that thankfully prohibit the practice.

Seconded. DPV and CCR Mod1 are two that I actually think are best done individually, but none of the basic cave classes should be done solo IMO

 

[kensuf]

Seconded. DPV and CCR Mod1 are two that I actually think are best done individually, but none of the basic cave classes should be done solo IMO

Having taught a few of these courses, I respectfully disagree.

DPV: Towing a buddy with a disabled DPV, pacing/coordination with your team, and gas sharing are critical skills in a DPV class. Having two students means I can actually observe and correct issues where they are doing it wrong.

MOD1: Last year I switched up the way I treat "3H" problem drills; I am now teaching my students that when their buddy bails out they need to be prepared to donate. This means when I'm hitting one with hypercapnia the team is getting prepared to donate a regulator. My most recent MOD1 was a single student, my previous two MOD1s had 2 students each. Even though the single student class had probably the strongest of the 5 students, the difference with the "prepare to donate" drill was night and day.

 

[tbone1004]

Having taught a few of these courses, I respectfully disagree.

DPV: Towing a buddy with a disabled DPV, pacing/coordination with your team, and gas sharing are critical skills in a DPV class. Having two students means I can actually observe and correct issues where they are doing it wrong.

MOD1: Last year I switched up the way I treat "3H" problem drills; I am now teaching my students that when their buddy bails out they need to be prepared to donate. This means when I'm hitting one with hypercapnia the team is getting prepared to donate a regulator. My most recent MOD1 was a single student, my previous two MOD1s had 2 students each. Even though the single student class had probably the strongest of the 5 students, the difference with the "prepare to donate" drill was night and day.

The concerns I've seen with these courses with a buddy is when the skills aren't near perfectly matched.
In DPV it tends to manifest with the attention/feedback on the buddy who needs it and the time is largely spent bringing one buddy up to the skill level of the other. I don't disagree on the towing/gas sharing, but the actual skills for piloting the DPV portion really needs reasonably similar buddies. Similar with Mod1 if you have one who is really getting it and the other isn't. Balance of where the priorities are and if you take those two as OW only courses where you are focusing on individual diver skills and then use the cave courses of those for all of the team failure modes.
I've had quite a few friends have issues with these two courses in particular where the incoming skill level of the divers were comparable but one took to the new gear much better than the other and felt like they didn't get a lot of out the course because the attention was on the other diver.

 

[jlcnuke]

so why did you choose apprentice cave instead of just continuing down the path with TDI intro to cave? could of saved you a couple days. but I guess more time and practice is better.

TDI Intro to cave and NSS-CDS Apprentice Cave courses cover pretty much the same things. In fact, when I did Apprentice Cave I got certified for both as the standards for both were met (and I decided to pay for both cards in case someone somewhere didn't recognize one of them, in hindsight, that probably wasn't really necessary). Having up to 50 cu ft of penetration gas (Apprentice limit) instead of 1/6ths as the limit (intro to cave limit) on gas makes it a lot nicer in Florida especially (not as big a deal in Mexico's shallow systems though).
NSS-CDS also offers the ability for the instructor to do an "Upgrade" to the Apprentice rating as an "in-between" step between apprentice and full cave based on additional training/certifications etc. (when I went to apprentice plus my limits were moved to full thirds, 10 min deco, and I could jump off the main line for instance).

 

[Manatee Diver]

I decided to pay for both cards in case someone somewhere didn't recognize one of them, in hindsight, that probably wasn't really necessary

I personally look at the multicard thing more as insulating yourself from another NACD situation. So I personally don't see the need except at full cave and above as those cards are ones you are going to be using for years.. hopefully. So I get TDI and NSS-CDS cards with all my certs now.

 

[JMart]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Josh the diver]

did you ever go and get your full cave?

 

[AeroSpartacus]

did you ever go and get your full cave?

Yes, I finished full cave with the same instructor about 5 months later (end of last August 2023). Not trying to rush anything, but at this point eventually aiming for CCR Cave and maybe also DPV. I have a non-Cave CCR class scheduled in a week or so on the Choptima.

 

[Learner Diver]

How many cavern dives had you completed before moving on to apprentice cave diver?