Apollo Bio Pro- talk about controversy!

[kirikuru]

I bring both my SP Jet Fin and Apollo Bio XT on trips for different usage. Both fins require very differnt styles of kicking and I won't say 1 is better than the other for every situation, but I think both have their strengths. jetfins for tight places (caves, or photography, ec), bo XT for deep blue or drift dives.

 

[Charlie99]

Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry I don't know how to kick properly. I guess 600 dives in 10 countries teaches you nothing.

That does make it harder to change to a different kick style.

Apollo Bio-Fins, and other split fins, are an acquired taste. It's easier to acquire that taste if you haven't done hundreds of dives in paddle fins.

I tried some Apollo Bio-Fins after using the huge, stiff, flat USD Blades (originals) for many dives. It felt like I had forgotten to put my fins on, particularly when I forgot and start doing my normal frog kick. I'm doing the silly little wiggle of feet like I'm supposed to, but it feels like nothing is happening. I'm just getting nowhere. Then I realize I'm leaving my buddy behind, and the bottom is zooming past at high speed. Perceptions can be very deceiving.

3 kts in still water is the same as 3 kts in current. The fins and my body can't tell the difference. My mind does, though, and if I start going back to big, strong, wide kicks, then yes, the fins will fold up and not work.

---------------

Split fins are awesome for moving straight ahead with minimum amount of effort.

But they "feel funny" to someone used to paddle fins. Specifically, you don't feel as strongly coupled into the water. With a paddle fin you can be motionless, then give a hard kick, and start moving instantly. With a split fin, you kick, kick, kick and build up speed. Kind of like the difference between a car where you get instant torque from rubber on asphalt, vs. a taxiing jet plane, where the pilot cranks up the engine and it takes a while for the thrust to get you moving. (Actually, when I first tried them, the less flattering image going through my mind was that of a cartoon character on ice trying to get traction while trying to start running on ice.)

The lower energy per kick cycle means it is more difficult to use splits to do small adjustments in position/trim at near standstill than it is with paddle fins.

I've tried various split fins over the years, and have always been amazed at their efficiency, but I'll keep my blade fins because that's what I'm comfortable with. OTOH, much of the posted criticism of split fins is way off base.

Charlie Allen

 

[skywalk]

That does make it harder to change to a different kick style.

Apollo Bio-Fins, and other split fins, are an acquired taste. It's easier to acquire that taste if you haven't done hundreds of dives in paddle fins.

I tried some Apollo Bio-Fins after using the huge, stiff, flat USD Blades (originals) for many dives. It felt like I had forgotten to put my fins on, particularly when I forgot and start doing my normal frog kick. I'm doing the silly little wiggle of feet like I'm supposed to, but it feels like nothing is happening. I'm just getting nowhere. Then I realize I'm leaving my buddy behind, and the bottom is zooming past at high speed. Perceptions can be very deceiving.

3 kts in still water is the same as 3 kts in current. The fins and my body can't tell the difference. My mind does, though, and if I start going back to big, strong, wide kicks, then yes, the fins will fold up and not work.

---------------

Split fins are awesome for moving straight ahead with minimum amount of effort.

But they "feel funny" to someone used to paddle fins. Specifically, you don't feel as strongly coupled into the water. With a paddle fin you can be motionless, then give a hard kick, and start moving instantly. With a split fin, you kick, kick, kick and build up speed. Kind of like the difference between a car where you get instant torque from rubber on asphalt, vs. a taxiing jet plane, where the pilot cranks up the engine and it takes a while for the thrust to get you moving. (Actually, when I first tried them, the less flattering image going through my mind was that of a cartoon character on ice trying to get traction while trying to start running on ice.)

The lower energy per kick cycle means it is more difficult to use splits to do small adjustments in position/trim at near standstill than it is with paddle fins.

I've tried various split fins over the years, and have always been amazed at their efficiency, but I'll keep my blade fins because that's what I'm comfortable with. OTOH, much of the posted criticism of split fins is way off base.

Charlie Allen

THIS post is as accurate as it gets. And eloquent too. I own Quattros, SP twin jets, and SP jet fins. For ME, twins are extremely fast with small flutters. no doubt you can, to some degree, do various other kicking techniques with them, but the bottom line is that they won't be as EFFICIENT with these other kicks.

long surface swims, strongish current, comfortable gliding in the water, totally relaxed drift dives...i'd use the twin jets. they'll build up speed and propel you through with minimal leg fatigue. for me, these are my multi-purpose fins.

for instant power, and to use my fav frog kick/scull, i'll go with jets. i personally can't flutter very well with them. I either use a very slow, wide flutter kick with these, or i'll frog kick. awesome for fine tuning your position cus they're short and stiff, so that I can take pics. I prefer these to the quattros that I cannot for the life of me, use to do surface swims or frog kicks very well cus my ankles start to hurt.

my take is this: all fins work. they propel you through water. some are more suited for certain people (technique, strength, preference) and if you find a fin that isn't as effecient for your kick style, you'll damn them to hell and call them crap. but if you respect the fins and understand that every one is unique, and demands different methods of treatment, (sheesh, sounds like im talking about women. I won't go there ) you'll see that twins and jets, splits and blades are both awesome.

on a side note, with a tiny but fast flutter kick from the hips not knees, my twins outperformed the others with jets and quattros into the current. this was during my rescue endurance swim. and they were winded while I was not. really built my confidence level.

everyone is entitled to their opinion...I hope you understand that i'm merely relating my experiences and my side of the story.

 

[pescador775]

Yeah, Charlie99 has it right. In Sept, 1999, I tried a pair of Apollo Bio's in the Gulfstream near Bimini. Same thing. Good overall performance and reduced air consumption due to higher speed per unit energy. I have been a freediver and Scuba diver since 1955 so my experiences eclipse most on this board. Not coincidentally, I agree with what Scubalab and Jim Grier say about the Apollo. Some here may know of the large number of technical posts I've offered on Scubaboard. This is not one of those because the data have already been published by others. In this case, I have benefited from the work of others just as some of you have acquired some knowledge or advantage from my humble offerings. My informal tests confirm everything Scubalab has published. In this regard, the only other type of fin which is competitive with the open heel Apollo Bio Fin would be a type of paddle fin which uses a flexible center panel such as the Mares Plana Avanti Tre or some of the Oceanic/Aeris models. For Susan, I recommend the Apollo Bio Pro if she can find a pair which fit comfortably. Apollo has a strange sizing system. Recently, they changed the original sizing chart. I called the company for an explanation. Response was that the lineup has not changed, they changed recommendations in their charts based on customer complaints. My opinion is that the new chart is even more misleading and confusing.

 

[CC1020]

I've read many posts, both pro and con, for splits in general. I use the yellow Atomic Splits, and absolutely love them, so you might want to consider those in your shopping quest. I've heard that the Apollos are pretty flexible...perhaps too much so. If you have a chance to try before you buy, that would probably be the best way to go, IMHO.

 

[jeffrey-c]

I use Apollos for snorkeling and casual dives, and fixed blades if it is going to be a situation where more power is needed. I find the Apollos to be delightful in most cases, as they feel more efficient for normal moving around, and they're great for spending hours snorkeling. An analogy is that the fins are like the engine in a car, with the split fins being an efficient general purpose engine like in a Toyota and things like jets being more like a torquey big V8. For general driving, the Toyota engine is more efficient and responsive, but when you really need to pour on power it just can't deliver. With split fins, they are very effective in normal flutter kicks, but when kicked really hard the deformation in the blades negates the hydrodynamic design and they lose efficiency.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

I have the Bio fins and LOVE them. No real problems in current, once I got used to how flexible they are. The only fin I have used that doesn't leave me with blisters. I have used the new Atomics, which are much stiffer, but I found them unwieldy due to their very tall length. The BioFins are also much easier to pack for a trip than the Atomics.

 

[robbcayman]

When I first got here I went through this same struggle. I was trying to decide between the twin jets and the bios. I called my local dive shop and the guy said they had a bunch of bios in stock, but were junk and the previous owner had ordered too many. He then agreed to sell me them for $75!! I shot over there like a rocket, and have loved them ever since!!!! This guy was insane, he just hated split fins, and his loss was certainly my gain!!

 

[Allison Finch]

That does make it harder to change to a different kick style.

Apollo Bio-Fins, and other split fins, are an acquired taste. It's easier to acquire that taste if you haven't done hundreds of dives in paddle fins.



:no
HMMMMM......interesting comment.......since I spent over 30 years in SP jet fins and now use SP twin speed splits.

Split fins are awesome for moving straight ahead with minimum amount of effort.
But they "feel funny" to someone used to paddle fins. Specifically, you don't feel as strongly coupled into the water. With a paddle fin you can be motionless, then give a hard kick, and start moving instantly. With a split fin, you kick, kick, kick and build up speed. Kind of like the difference between a car where you get instant torque from rubber on asphalt, vs. a taxiing jet plane, where the pilot cranks up the engine and it takes a while for the thrust to get you moving. (Actually, when I first tried them, the less flattering image going through my mind was that of a cartoon character on ice trying to get traction while trying to start running on ice.)


:shakehead
Not sure which splits you used, but mine accelerate immediatly. The twin speeds are about the stiffest splits on the market, though.

 

[DiveMaven]

I really believe that fins are extremely personal and that people need to try as many different styles as possible before buying. When I tried splits, I'm positive I overkicked them consistently, thus they felt worthless and floppy on my feet. And I tried at least 4 different types of splits since most of the LDSs in my area push them like crazy.

I was a competitive swimmer for nearly 15 years, thus my kicks are so natural and automatic that the idea of modifying them to make a pair of fins "work" doesn't hold any appeal for me. I have an extremely strong flutter kick, as well as prefer to frog kick as much as possible while diving. I can't even begin to tell you how horrible the splits felt when I tried to frog kick in them!! It was much easier to find a fin that fit my style of kicking, which is what I did.