Apocalypto....I am now officially "Violenced OUT"
- Thread starter Cacia
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
evil dead movies were kinda hard on the ketchup too 
Fish_Whisperer
Contributor
- Messages
- 6,317
- Reaction score
- 23
- # of dives
- 50 - 99
I'm trying, Catherine. I grew up with violence, (abusive parents, fist-fighting constantly through school), lived violently during my time in the Army, (boxing, and more fist-fights, and then combat, of course), and was pretty violent even after coming out of the Army. (still MORE fist-fights)
The last fight I ever got into, was twelve years ago. I beat the guy pretty badly. I didn't start it, but was... "over-zealous" in winning, and then promptly threw up.
I took a good hard look at my life, and decided that I couldn't live like that anymore. I've had my fill of it. It doesn't appeal to me in movies, books, relationships, or life. It just makes me sick.
What you don't have in movies that you have in reality is the smell. If you could put the smell in movies it would make battle scenes like those of us who have been up close remember it as it was. The smell - that's what you need in movies.
Fish_Whisperer
Contributor
- Messages
- 6,317
- Reaction score
- 23
- # of dives
- 50 - 99
Tom, you "get it."
But I have a feeling that if you start piping the smell of s**t, puke, and the miriad other stuff that constitutes reality, into theatres....you might have trouble filling them....... :11:
I thought the movie was well done, and from what I've studied of Mayan history and culture, didn't go over the top in respect to gore and violence. Quite the opposite if the interpretations of glyphs left behind are accurate.
There was one historical error, that most people probably didn't realize.
The Mayan culture was very advanced for the times, but as it grew and the cities consolidated, the social strains proved to be too much to contain. Power was shifted throughout the region many times, each time resulting in groups of peoples with no ties being moved to the new seat of power. In-fighting between military groups and their families would escalte usually at the expense of the common worker. The priests in order to restore order, and retain their positions of power, intensified worship and sacrifice as a way to shift attention away from social evils. It apeased the masses for a while, but eventually failed to mantain order. The culture started to spiral out of control, and a disorganized series of civil wars broke out with no clear winners, sealing the fate of the larger cities and those who ruled them. Basically their society broke down. Many of the large cities and cultural centers were stripped for building material. The religion did continue as much of what was taught was telling of the future. The empire was shattered, but functioning at a grass roots level, and the people were left waiting for predictions they had been taught to unfold.
Interestingly enough, one of the predictions was of large white-winged canoes carrying hairy faced men which would arrive from the east. They would shine in the sun, and were there as represetatives of a group of Gods. They were to care for and lead the people. This prediction was made between 400 and 500 years before the cities and temples crashed. The first Spanish ships arrived nearly 400 years after the collapse. There were no major Mayan cities or religious centers that were still influental at the time of the Spanish arrival despite what the last scenes in the movie showed.
The majority of Mayans, when encountering the Spanish for the first time, defered to them as servants. The Spanish, with the blessing of the Catholic Church, conquered them easily with very little Spanish blood being spent. (Mayans not so lucky)
There was one historical error, that most people probably didn't realize.
The Mayan culture was very advanced for the times, but as it grew and the cities consolidated, the social strains proved to be too much to contain. Power was shifted throughout the region many times, each time resulting in groups of peoples with no ties being moved to the new seat of power. In-fighting between military groups and their families would escalte usually at the expense of the common worker. The priests in order to restore order, and retain their positions of power, intensified worship and sacrifice as a way to shift attention away from social evils. It apeased the masses for a while, but eventually failed to mantain order. The culture started to spiral out of control, and a disorganized series of civil wars broke out with no clear winners, sealing the fate of the larger cities and those who ruled them. Basically their society broke down. Many of the large cities and cultural centers were stripped for building material. The religion did continue as much of what was taught was telling of the future. The empire was shattered, but functioning at a grass roots level, and the people were left waiting for predictions they had been taught to unfold.
Interestingly enough, one of the predictions was of large white-winged canoes carrying hairy faced men which would arrive from the east. They would shine in the sun, and were there as represetatives of a group of Gods. They were to care for and lead the people. This prediction was made between 400 and 500 years before the cities and temples crashed. The first Spanish ships arrived nearly 400 years after the collapse. There were no major Mayan cities or religious centers that were still influental at the time of the Spanish arrival despite what the last scenes in the movie showed.
The majority of Mayans, when encountering the Spanish for the first time, defered to them as servants. The Spanish, with the blessing of the Catholic Church, conquered them easily with very little Spanish blood being spent. (Mayans not so lucky)
Fish - I love your music!
There was another little noticed disparity in the movie. A solar eclipse with a full moon the next night.
I thought that the movie was excellent. A visit to Chichen Itza lets you see the place where warriors played somthing akin to basketball and the winners were sacrificed. The temple where they were beheaded and the heart displayed. Then the graveyard where the heads and hearts were buried and the pool where the bodies were tossed. That was their way of life. Not to mention the rumors that the Spaniards found Moctezuma II eating babies for breakfast.
Speaking of gore - have you watched Kill Bill?
There was another little noticed disparity in the movie. A solar eclipse with a full moon the next night.
I thought that the movie was excellent. A visit to Chichen Itza lets you see the place where warriors played somthing akin to basketball and the winners were sacrificed. The temple where they were beheaded and the heart displayed. Then the graveyard where the heads and hearts were buried and the pool where the bodies were tossed. That was their way of life. Not to mention the rumors that the Spaniards found Moctezuma II eating babies for breakfast.
Speaking of gore - have you watched Kill Bill?
Chichen Itza et al was Mayan; Montezuma et al were Aztec; Apocalypto is about the Mayans... Tulum is pictured, but mixed with a pyramid too big for the site. And then there's the timing problem - when the Conquistadors arrived, the Mayans had been past prime for five hundred years. Chichen Itza had already been abandoned for some 250 years. The Mayans that were left to meet the Spaniards had already pretty much collapsed politically, and the kind of ceremony depicted in the movie wouldn't have happend for centuries. (The Aztecs "formed" as a "civilized" culture after the Mayan collapse and were still going strong when the Spaniards arrived, which adds confusion as to who the movie's about).
As for the Aztecs and babies for breakfast, that's what Cortez reported, but lately it's being questioned (even vehemently denied by some) by Aztec researchers. The Aztecs undoubtedly practiced human sacrifice and their high priests "danced in the skins of virgins" but it looks like the cannibalism may be a bit overblown. When I first heard that (that Montezuma may not have dined on babies for breakfast) I was skeptical 'cause it was in just about every reputable history book I'd ever read on the subject, but was reminded by the archeologist making the claim that the cannibalism accusation is a common one even today, and that Smedey and I and our fellow warriors had been accused of the same thing by the North Vietnamese communists! First hand knowledge of the veracity of that recent preposterous accusation certainly makes the possibility of exaggeration by Cortez a lot easier to believe.
But historical time-line and astronomical errors aside, Apocalypto provides a glimpse into pre-Columbian MesoAmerica that's probably not far off the mark.
Rick
As for the Aztecs and babies for breakfast, that's what Cortez reported, but lately it's being questioned (even vehemently denied by some) by Aztec researchers. The Aztecs undoubtedly practiced human sacrifice and their high priests "danced in the skins of virgins" but it looks like the cannibalism may be a bit overblown. When I first heard that (that Montezuma may not have dined on babies for breakfast) I was skeptical 'cause it was in just about every reputable history book I'd ever read on the subject, but was reminded by the archeologist making the claim that the cannibalism accusation is a common one even today, and that Smedey and I and our fellow warriors had been accused of the same thing by the North Vietnamese communists! First hand knowledge of the veracity of that recent preposterous accusation certainly makes the possibility of exaggeration by Cortez a lot easier to believe.
But historical time-line and astronomical errors aside, Apocalypto provides a glimpse into pre-Columbian MesoAmerica that's probably not far off the mark.
Rick
Fish_Whisperer
Contributor
- Messages
- 6,317
- Reaction score
- 23
- # of dives
- 50 - 99
I appreciate that! 