AOW student looking to take tech route- wondering how i can get the edge.

[nereas]

"This message is hidden because ucfdiver is on your ignore list. "

 

[texdiveguy]

Why would you hope that??

Of the people whom I personally know of, or have read about, that is how they died while techdiving.

How would you personally know what an individual suffered prior to death....I think you need to re-examine the science and chain of stress through panic. Technical divers are know more exempt from panic than newly certf. divers when it comes to situations........we may have more experience and tools to draw from and hopefully this will allow the experienced diver the opt. to handle the event better, but once panic sets in underwater you are in a heap of trouble. I think divers die of many different issues, but panic is right up there on the top of the list. I advise divers when troubled for any reason to Stop-Breath-Think-Act....I know it is fundemental but it may spare a bad situation going south into the zone of almost no return--'panic'.

 

[dsteding]

My point is this:

Panic as a tech diver and you are more likely to die. Way more likely. Panic is controllable, because it has its origins in stress and taskloading, both of which are manageable with practice and experience.

Good tech training will expose you to those, and will also result in you being able to go build experience. REALLY good tech training will help you find your panic limits, a talented tech instructor will find your personal "buttons" and will push them until you don't react irrationally.

IMH, new tech diver, opinion, almost all the failure modes that can lead to death in tech diving are manageable or preventable. All of the specifics listed here, running out of gas, getting caught in a silt-out in a wreck, getting lost in a cave, even equipment failures are manageable risks. Panic is as well, through good training and a humble attitude in terms of self-knowledge. It is possible to break the panic cycle underwater, but it requires intense self-discipline, and it is also easier if you've been subjected to task loading and stress in a training environment. It is also easier if your ability to handle stress and task loading is larger than the average recreational diver, because the stress and task loading is less likely to trigger panic (because those two items are managed well by the diver).

 

[nereas]

How would you personally know what an individual suffered prior to death...

Simply by analyzing the situation based on the remaining contents of the tanks and bottles, and the other circumstances, then putting yourself into the same situation through visualization.

Nobody ever taught you that?

Maybe you should not be tech diving??

 

[nereas]

My point is this:

Panic as a tech diver and you are more likely to die. Way more likely...

Indeed, there is no room for panic as a tech diver. Perhaps the training is so good that it weeds out anyone who might panic. I have simply never heard of a tech diver panicking. By the time they become tech divers, they are quite excellent divers.

...Good tech training will expose you to those, and will also result in you being able to go build experience. REALLY good tech training will help you find your panic limits, a talented tech instructor will find your personal "buttons" and will push them until you don't react irrationally...

I do not agree with ripping off your students' masks, or other such nonsense, however.

...

IMH, new tech diver, opinion, almost all the failure modes that can lead to death in tech diving are manageable or preventable. All of the specifics listed here, running out of gas, getting caught in a silt-out in a wreck, getting lost in a cave, even equipment failures are manageable risks...

Some things you cannot control. You cannot control your buddy/buddies. You cannot control strangers at the dive site (non-buddies). You cannot control currents. You cannot control a shark biting you to protect its territory of the wreck (saw a big nurse shark doing that once).

Stop/breathe/think/act should get you through anything, or else, help from your buddy will.

 

[texdiveguy]

I have yet to meet any competent technical diver or recreational diver as far as that goes that truly thinks that they are 'panic proof' simply as a result of their previous dive training--reading and experience, till I read both nereas and dsteding input here.

I don't know what to tell you both, as you guys have it all figured out.

I do believe that somewhere along the line of your dive training and dive careers you have been miss informed on the dangers of panic to all divers. Training and experience are wonderful things that can get us out of many many (most) issues we might encounter, but I caution anyone in heading out on dives with belief that their training can get them out of any and all nasty situations, and that they are panic proof.

My advise is to get the training.....do the dives and practice over and over the skills, but also never get so miss directed that you feel you can handle anything at anytime without the possibility of entering the chain of stress that can manifest itself into panic.

Two things I have learned in life and goes double in diving is that both complacency and full blown panic can kill.

Safe and meaningful diving!!

 

[ppo2_diver]

By the time they become tech divers, they are quite excellent divers.

Wanna bet?

I do not agree with ripping off your students' masks, or other such nonsense, however.

No agency allows their students to rip off masks. If an instructor does so, then their concern for safety should be questioned. Even GUE doesn't allow their instructors to rip off masks and turn off valves. It's specifically asked in the course QA questionnaire.

 

[Clammy]

Just to step in and mediate a little, it seems like Texdiveguy is saying that no one is immune to panic (at some level) which is true. Everyone has their breaking point, some farther along than others. And basically Neras and DSTeding are saying that as a tech diver (or before you become one), one should have the ability, training, practice, and comfort to mitigate and work through any problems well enough that they never ever reach the point of panic.

 

[nereas]

...Even GUE doesn't allow their instructors to rip off masks ...

When did THAT change???

Ripping off masks used to be GI3's favorite trick.

 

[nereas]

I have yet to meet any competent technical diver or recreational diver as far as that goes that truly thinks that they are 'panic proof' simply as a result of their previous dive training--reading and experience, till I read both nereas and dsteding input here.

I don't know what to tell you both, as you guys have it all figured out.

I do believe that somewhere along the line of your dive training and dive careers you have been miss informed on the dangers of panic to all divers. Training and experience are wonderful things that can get us out of many many (most) issues we might encounter, but I caution anyone in heading out on dives with belief that their training can get them out of any and all nasty situations, and that they are panic proof.

My advise is to get the training.....do the dives and practice over and over the skills, but also never get so miss directed that you feel you can handle anything at anytime without the possibility of entering the chain of stress that can manifest itself into panic...

If this is how you feel, Tex, then I believe you should not be tech diving.

You must be able to cut cards with the devil as you stare death in the face, and then stop/breathe/think/act and work your way out of any problem.

Anytime I go into deco, I know that my life may end that day due to unforeseeable circumstances.

Therefore I check everything and prepare with multiple levels of redundancy.

I visualize the entire dive and imagine anything that can go wrong and think about what I will do to prevent it or deal with it.

I go through the dive plan over and over, memorizing primary and alternate deco times.

I even say my prayers before leaving my home. You know, all that Bible stuff?

If the plan is not sound, then I simply will not dive. And even with a sound plan, anything can go wrong anytime.

You guys from Texas are maybe just a little too soft? Or is it that the thinking process is unduly hard for you?

Panic is always out of the question.