Aow=bs

[MauiScubaSteve]

Are they doing EANx in Open Water training now????????:no

:no :no

IANTD has been conducting beginning EANx Open Water certifications since the '90's, probably since the beginning of the agency.

In Kidspot's case the two separate courses were probably back to back.

 

[jviehe]

And what does it accomplish to introduce students to new experiences when they're not yet comfortable with the experiences they got from their OW class?

Sorry, but I have real issues with that approach.

First off, if so many people are coming out of AOW stating (as they do repeatedly on ScubaBoard) that they didn't get anything out of their AOW class, why isn't that a red flag to the agencies that maybe they should take a closer look at how the class is being taught ... rather than simply how it's being marketed?

Second, all of the agencies require a deep dive as part of their AOW (or whatever they choose to call the post-OW con-ed) class. How can they justify taking a student who isn't even comfortable with the basics of buoyancy control to 100 feet? Or certifying them to dive to that depth after only a single "experience" dive where they didn't even bother to teach them anything about how to prepare for a deep dive?

Based on your comments above, it sounds like the objective of AOW isn't to actually teach the student anything ... it's to use AOW as a means to sell more specialty classes. I have a real problem with that ... in my neck of the water, that's a great way to set a new diver up with a false sense of security that can land them in a really bad situation ... because at the end of the class you're handing them a card that says they're qualified to go do those dives they just "experienced". To my concern, before they get that card, they should have adequate knowledge and skills to go do those dives safely.


Well, based on some of the previous replies in this thread it sounds like a lot of people didn't feel qualified to dive on their own after OW class. How many other "divers" come out of those classes without such a well-developed sense of survival ... despite a C-card that allows them to acquire the gear and take the trips?

What are you really selling? And what is your primary objective? Shouldn't it be the safety and well-being of your students?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I assume OW students have mastered the skills taught in basic OW, which includes bouyancy. If they sign up for AOW dives, it is still my job to evaluate they have the ability to do the dives, which can be done any number of ways. The objective of AOW is for experience in new diving conditions, and that is what they learn. There are some speicifc skills, but I wouldnt say thats the focus. I have no doubt a student who comes out of a UW photography dive can now take pics while diving. Or that a fish id student can id fish. Whats there really to learn in deep diving? Its mostly academic. Its really not about the skills, but the experience. As for sales, all classes are an opportunity to sell more classes. Dive Instruction is a business for many. But we can only sell what someone wants to buy. Im just filling demand.

As for OW, I cant speak for other instructors as to whether their students dont feel qualified. There is little way to evaluate competence in diving without an instructor. We simply teach the student what the need to know, then its up to them to use it. Its worked with hundreds of thousands of students. I dont think any significant number dont think they can dive after OW. And what Im selling is entertainment. Safety is required, but thats not all of it. If they cant have fun, there is no point.

You dont even need to take a AOW class to progress. I did 50 dives, deep nav, all sorts of stuff before taking my AOW which by then was cake. Its simply there for the type of diver who wants an adventure under supervision.

 

[bfw]

That's what I do just to be able to grab them with my hand, if I tried to put them up to my wrist they would affect my ability to use my hand and stick out awkwardly .

I'm just not seeing how this is happening. What make and model fins are these?
I've not seen a modern fin that presents anything close to this problem.

 

[bfw]

I puked between dives last week and I have Rescue and Tec c-cards; how far do I have to train before this stops?

Maybe the training needed comes not from a dive agency, but from AA.

 

[BarryNL]

Maybe the training needed comes not from a dive agency, but from AA.

Heh, no, I think I just need to do my PADI Scopoderm Diver speciality.

 

[DevonDiver]

I don't think the issue is the dive number ... it's the training the he got (didn't get) in OW and his AOW classes I and my buddy had far less dives than that and did not flounder around so

Sounds like he was just sick and having a bad day...just hope you never have a bad day and happen to be in the company of a self-inflated, judgemental knobber.

my opinion on AOW minimum 75-100 dives i know you cant verify it as anybody can modify their log but heck this is my view.

Read the words.....

Advanced Open Water

not 'Advanced Diver'....'Experienced Diver'...'Super Diver' etc etc

It's a two-day, five-dive course that allows people to sample some other activities they could enjoy underwater, to spend more time under instructor supervision whilst gaining experience and a further chance to develop from the BASIC skills they learnt on the OW programme. It provides them with some more confidence and some more knowledge on which to help plan their future diving development....
I suppose it may make some people feel better to create a mystique around basic diving qualifications that make them sound more adventurous than they actually are.

Obviously, it's time people took a moment to read the basic info taught on the PADI OW course, which describes exactly the purposes and goals of the AOW programme.....

 

[D_B]

I'm just not seeing how this is happening. What make and model fins are these?
I've not seen a modern fin that presents anything close to this problem.

make and model doesn't matter, It's that I need large foot pocket in fins for my wide EEEE feet and boots, and short springs that just go straight across because most of foot is in pocket .. just pointing out that not everything is blk/wht

 

[DJ Johnny Mac]

I am a firm believer that with ANY class, OW, AOW, Rescue or whatever, You do not leave the class with the skill of the certification you just received. What you leave the class with is the knowledge to develop the skills of that cert. It is up to the student to use that knowledge to develop those skills. The only way to do that is to go diving, remember what you were taught and try to improve your skills. If the instructor has armed you with knowledge that you need, then this will happen with experience. The fact is that 5 (mostly unrelated) dives in 2 days is not enough to develop skills, but is sufficient to gain the knowledge needed to develop the skills.

 

[Aussie scuba chick]

Hmm... I did my AOW after 20 dives and was not taught a thing from the instructors. The PADI company I went with gave me a book two days before my course, and then took me out for 5 dives. No classroom education, no quiz, nada, zilch. Kinda like thanks for your $s, here's a few dives and see you later. (I didn't really mind that much, tho, cos the book was interesting).

 

[Skeeter1097]

I say good for that diver. Expanding his dive portfolio. He well get better as we all did. Sea sick I have a lot of dives in the ocean and I purge sometimes too. Like that diver I don't let it stop me ether.
I can't walk on water so I dive under it.