Any special skills needed for bp/wings?

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BCD= Buoyancy Compensating Device

A BCD is any device that has an air cell to help you compensate for buoyancy. One of the first was the Stabilization Jacket made by ScubaPro. Until that time divers used a hard plate to attach their tanks and a horsecollar life jacket.

A BCD is anything that has an adjustable bladder to achieve neutral buoyancy underwater and positive buoyancy at the surface.

A BP/W IS a BCD.
 
Jason Ooi:
I will be suggest BCD is more suitable for new diver or recreational, BP/w more in technical setup..

Toe the line, toe the line...:sarcasm:
 
I dove a jacket for my 1st 120 dives. An oceanic probe to be exact. During those dives I aquired and tried a seaquest adv, a scubamax bc5000(my son's actually but you know how it is:D ), and also my instructors chute2. Perhaps it was because of my training, comfort in the water, skill level or all of them but other than adjusting for correct fit I had no problem with control, accessing items, or just using the gear period:wink: . That said I just got my DSS single tank rig w/30 lb wing(and I got a 50 lb wing also since my doubles arrived the day before my BPW setup:D ) and have two dives and a pool session on it and again with some adjustments still being worked out I had absolutely no problems using it. My instructor did give me a look :11: when I showed up at the pool with it but said nothing. This was the final confined session for these students and I went thru all the skills they did and if anything found it easier to do in the BPW setup. Especially the doff and don at the bottom of the pool. Not part of the class but just wanted to see if I could:D . It also got some looks from the students because of the lack of clutter, danglies, and simplicity.( I think I might be hearing from the Dad about getting one:wink: ) At the surface there was no difficulties in staying upright. I even overinflated it( not trying to bust it but just putting in more air than needed to keep my head out of the water) and it did feel a little like I wanted to tip over until I relaxed and laid back. Then it was like lying in a nice comfy pool float. Very stable and relaxing. Without the SQUEEZE of the jacket:14: . I will still use the jacket style probe for classes at the request of my instructor and maybe for some other stuff until I get fully comfortable in the wing and get everything adjusted and accessorized the way I need it. But hey no reason why you can't have 2 or 3 or 4 bcd's:D . I just wish it would cool down a little so I can adjust it for my drysuit before labor day.(diving the St. Lawrence River)
 
NWGratefulDiver:
It's the same. Achieving any desired trim in the water is more about weight distribution than gear choice. Remember, no matter what you're wearing, the air in your rig is going to travel to the highest point possible in whatever orientation you are trying to achieve.

Do a search on Center of Gravity or Center of Buoyancy. There must be some good explanations in here somewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


Yes, weight distribution... How do you do that on a vest-bcd? You get most of your weights in one place around your stomach. Now there might be those who have a lot of boyancy there as well (Blubber floats...), but I don't. And I find front weight pockets a terrible way to carry lead. Of course there are regular vests without weight pockets, and you can (must) carry ALL your lead in a weight belt right on your sore old spine...

Personally I appreciate the opportunity to have some weigh in my BP it self, some weight fixed to the BP with bolts, and a suitable amount lead in a dropable belt. -DISTRIBUTED WEIGHT! :D
 
Jason Ooi:
OK!
If say no different why you choose BP/W setup:confused:
Thats not the question I asked... let me rephrase my question... How is a BP/W not a BCD?
 
KOMPRESSOR:
Yes, weight distribution... How do you do that on a vest-bcd? You get most of your weights in one place around your stomach. Now there might be those who have a lot of boyancy there as well (Blubber floats...), but I don't. And I find front weight pockets a terrible way to carry lead. Of course there are regular vests without weight pockets, and you can (must) carry ALL your lead in a weight belt right on your sore old spine...

Personally I appreciate the opportunity to have some weigh in my BP it self, some weight fixed to the BP with bolts, and a suitable amount lead in a dropable belt. -DISTRIBUTED WEIGHT!
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well said!! I agree with you 100%. i cant do that in my current BC...my rear pockets are fixed and not ditchable and i carry my weight in the front where i'm able to ditch it. This is crappy as i cant move the weight to the position where it's comfy for me. And bouyancy problems come together as a package. Sorry was ranting...please be understanding.
 
dive_lover88:
well said!! I agree with you 100%. i cant do that in my current BC...my rear pockets are fixed and not ditchable and i carry my weight in the front where i'm able to ditch it. This is crappy as i cant move the weight to the position where it's comfy for me. And bouyancy problems come together as a package. Sorry was ranting...please be understanding.
That's one of the inherent drawbacks to a jacket-style BCD ... and the more weight you need to carry the bigger a problem it can be. That's one reason why you see fewer jacket BCDs in cold water climes than you do in warm-water ones ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Jason Ooi:
OK!
If say no different why you choose BP/W setup:confused:

I also did my BOW training and dives in a jacket BC and then post-cert dive #1 was in my own BP/W setup. Back then I was doing some "trust me" gear selection (like "trust me" diving) based on the appeal to me of the philosophy that "all diving should be approached like technical diving" and that the underwater environment is inherantly somewhat hostile and that you want the best tools, and that even recreational divers should be able to solve problems underwater rather than bolting for the surface. As a new diver I never saw the rationale for that dichotomy and still don't understand it now.

I had zero problems with the BP/W being that new, there was no learning curve.

Now having had a little more experience, there are things which I think are the selling point of a BP/W which are its single-purpose-ness in design and general indestructability. The maintenance of a BP/W over time is generally just replacing the webbing which is where it also takes most of its wear and tear. You might also manage to damage the bladder and need to patch it, but a BP/W with an outer shell is going to be very resistant to that, and the hogarthian style of wing with the corrugated hose and a single dump valve minimizes points of failure around the bladder. Power inflators can also fail and need replacing but all BCDs have to deal with that.

If you're not as obessive about failure points, though, then quick release harnesses, or back-inflate BCs like the Zeagle Ranger/Stilletto line are also really good. I don't like jacket BCs because I don't like the design where the air bladder comes around the diaphram and I've rescued one guy who couldn't breathe because his fully inflated BC constricted his breathing and was working his way into a panic situation. That problem can be eliminated with proper fit, but it can be removed entirely as as a concern by going to a back-inflate design.

The perceived problem with a BP/W or back-inflate of going head-down at the surface is caused entirely by poor weight distribution. If you have a buoyant Al80 tank with a wing next to it on your back, and all your weight around your waist you will go head down -- but you will also have crappy feet-down trim in the water. Some of that weight on the waist should be moved to a weighted STA or tank weights and/or use a steel tank instead.

The remove and replace skill is also easy to do on a BP/W just by unbuckling the waist strap, grabbing the valve and bringing it over your head. Its also not a particularly useful skill in real life, however. As training it is better just as a comfort-in-water test. The only time you're likely to want to do that in a real situation is when you're going through a restriction that is smaller than your profile with the tanks on and you'll have way more experience and training and you'll probably be sidemount diving anyway...
 
dive_lover88:
well said!! I agree with you 100%. i cant do that in my current BC...my rear pockets are fixed and not ditchable and i carry my weight in the front where i'm able to ditch it. This is crappy as i cant move the weight to the position where it's comfy for me. And bouyancy problems come together as a package. Sorry was ranting...please be understanding.

you could use tank weights to spread weight a bit higher.
 
My AOW instructor made another comment today about me purchasing "advanced" gear too soon--he seems to think traditional BCs are easier to learn in. From my point of veiw, the BP/W is a non-issue. I'm still trying to get the dry suit dialed in, however...
 
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